Topic #12 for August 23:

The Final Awakening

Fully realizing ourselves and each other as the Whole, Miraculous, Self-sourced, merged with God.

© 2001, Barry M Klein, Los Angeles, all rights reserved


Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 14] 8/23/2001 07:56 PM

HOST LFST RB3000:   Good evening, dear friends. :)

HOST LFST RB3000:   (In a few minutes, we'll be starting our formal class, and it will go for up to two hours)

OnlineHost:      HOST LFST MikeB has entered the room.

Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 19] 8/23/2001 08:00 PM

HOST LFST RB3000:   Hi, Mike!  :)

OnlineHost:      HOST LFST Heart has entered the room.

HOST LFST RB3000:   This will be our final class of the six-month series -- please ask me for the links to catch up with the class if you haven't been attending. 

HOST LFST RB3000:   PLEASE NOTE that we have three hosts here tonight, all beginning with "HOST LFST ..."  so if you are addressing a particular one of us, just use the last part.  For me, please use "RB" or "3k", and I'll be laying out the course.

HOST LFST RB3000:   Mike and Heart will be handling the "handouts" and queues, and any other room business.

HOST LFST RB3000:   Last time we discussed The Great Seals of Being.  We looked at the treasures that are hidden all around us in plain sight, why we left them there (here) for our self, and how we could claim them.

HOST LFST RB3000:   If you missed our earlier discussions on spiritual and mystical practices, I recommend that you read the logs of our earlier sessions (links to class logs upon request), since each week builds upon all the previous material, and we have now reached the conclusion of the whole series of 12 classes.

GeeBee030:      so this is graduation nite huh?

HOST LFST RB3000:   GeeBee, yup-- I hope you invited your whole family :)

GeeBee030:      lol 3k

HOST LFST RB3000:   I claim that, if you follow the suggestions and instructions throughout this whole series, you will achieve Awakening, Transcendence and the Ultimate Possibilities of mankind.  "It's better than a guarantee-- it's our word to you."  :)

AzurreWinds:   If I do that, I wouldn't have time to participate, would you rather I read the logs, or is it possible for me to be who I am in all I may or may not know?

HOST LFST RB3000:   AzurreWinds, you can go through the logs later-- and the practices. It really takes a few decades, I find. :)

AzurreWinds:   LOL ok - thank you

Addieessie:       i want 3k's book :)

HOST LFST RB3000:    


HOST LFST RB3000:   ******* WELL ALL RIGHT, dear friends.  Now please hold your chat while I roll out the overall ideas in a few paragraphs on what Awakening might be, and how we can verify that it's there waiting for us.  Please wait till I let you know we're ready again.   .......................



HOST LFST RB3000:   WE HAVE COME to think of religion as being, to a great extent, a comfort for the dying and for those who grieve, and to think of dying as the ultimate deterioration or destruction of the body until our "soul" can no longer live in it, and then we will find ourselves in some sort of "afterlife" in which we will either "meet our Maker" or "find the answers", etc.

     But scripture, mythology and mystical literature are full of references to "dying, that ye be reborn" and "in order to awaken, one must die."  They are not talking about croaking, or letting the body drop off so that the "soul" can be reborn in a new incarnation or some such -- they are instructing as to how we may awaken in *this* life by dissolving enslavement to the ego and to "common sense" and "societal norms" and even to "morality."

     From that perspective, being (re)born refers to who we are as "formless beings", without the defenses, armors, illusion and, most importantly, the profound sleep in which we live out our painful lives and go to our graves like sheep to the slaughter.

HOST LFST RB3000:   INSTEAD, it is a metamorphosis.  You are still somehow "you", but now you can *see* and *Know* the wonderment of what is in front of you and all around you.

     Besides, according to mystical doctrine (as well as to modern physics) there cannot even be an "afterlife" because all possible lives are concurrent, simultaneous in parallel dimensions.

     What they don't know is that it is possible for consciousness to assemble the "lifetimes" (the parallel "selves") into a unified, awake Consciousness that both creates and resolves all manifestation.


HOST LFST RB3000:   NOT SOME DISTANT DEITY, but the unification and awakening of the Consciousness that is the Self of each of us, and of every combination of us.

     That is, you-and-I seem to be communicating, but our communication is just the thought-process of the Being that is us-together.


HOST LFST RB3000:   THE OTHER THING that they don't know is that we are each inventing our past and future exactly in the present moment-now, as if dreaming the whole thing.

     I know I promised you I'd tell you how to prove this all to yourself, and what I can tell you is what I have always told you -- your own power will reveal the truth to you, and we've discussed at great length how to consolidate your power, through the various disciplines.


HOST LFST RB3000:   IT HAS ALWAYS turned out that nothing we can say or do will convince anyone of what they don't see with their own power, because the higher world is made up of higher, faster, finer energies.

     Just as astronomers can't "see" gamma rays or quarks with an ordinary telescope, but must use subtle apparatus, so it is with us -- our subtle apparatus is operated with power, which is how well we have collected our conscience and consciousness, and how well we have undergone the discipline of alignment and purification.

HOST LFST RB3000:   And then we can See and Know.


Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 15] 8/23/2001 08:15 PM

HOST LFST RB3000:   ***** ALL RIGHT, friends.  The floor is now open for discussion on death and the Moment of Consciousness.  Go ahead now please.


GeeBee030:      wow 3k-heavy stuff

AzurreWinds:   well your writing some of it, but this is a lot to respond to

HOST LFST RB3000:   AzurreWinds, just do your best-- we have lots of time (and also none :)

JLook91968:    why do you continue to base your paradigm on a belief of a person's inate ignorance?

JLook91968:    3K,.... the simple form of that question is who said you had a corner on  enlightenment ?

HOST LFST RB3000:   JLook, the paradigm is not my invention-- it was set up as an experiment long ago, and I have made the observations that confirm it within the given context.  It is not just an assumption of ignorance, any more than my cat's not being human is just an assumption-- he really cannot speak English or manipulate with hands, right?

JLook91968:    that's not a legitimate comparison

HOST LFST RB3000:   Ok, that's all I can really say about that issue for now-- sorry if it doesn't satisfy completely.

AzurreWinds:   A there are many different points of view, and we all listen with feelings that many, as I did, experience what JL is talking about, and is not an unawareness to what you said, but perhaps in the words that brought so much spepateness.

HOST LFST RB3000:   AzurreWinds, if you read the previous logs and stay with tonight's session, much of it will become more clear, I expect. :)

DCizunas:         So would this awakening be like honing a dulled stone and the sum total of all lives be the finished gem?

HOST LFST RB3000:   DCizunas, very much like that-- it's a pretty analogy. :)

DCizunas:         3K, like the idea of multifaceted lives, so that makes sense to me

DLewisSticky:   Hey, RB:  So...have you "experienced" this stuff directly?  Sounds like Seth speaks & Don Miguel Ruis wrapped into one big ball.

Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 16] 8/23/2001 08:30 PM

HOST LFST RB3000:   DLewisSticky, yes, very much.  Fifteen years ago, I started attending Seth knock-offs, and then learned to channel myself.  I have been doing mystical practices for half a century, and I am achieving very satisfying results now, which I hope to share.

AzurreWinds:   So tonight we are only 'learning about' what we supposedly don't live right?

HOST LFST RB3000:   AzurreWinds, remember this class has been going on for six months, and follows classes I have given for the previous four years online, and ten years offline.  There is a lot we'll cover that is addressed more to those who have kept up, although I have attempted to cover definitions and such.

HOST LFST RB3000:   AzurreWinds, I have no problem with how anyone lives.  I am addressing how we can vastly expand our perception and cognition to include all the worlds of the miraculous.

JLook91968:    could you give a real world example of the outcome of you way of thinking? what good comes of it?

HOST LFST RB3000:   JLook, yes, the "real world" example is that the "real world" disintegrates, dissolves and transforms into a world of the miraculous, and yet includes all our experience.  I will explain more over the next hour.

AzurreWinds:   3K, and what is it that makes you think you need to teach this, aren't you assuming people don't 'know' or live it?

JLook91968:    well... an anecdote of the benefit?

HOST LFST RB3000:   JLook, AzurreWinds, I think you're both asking the same thing, and that is to justify this class material. ...

JLook91968:    no... to understand it in terms we "live"

HOST LFST RB3000:   Over this next hour, I will be giving lots of examples and angles, so I merely ask your indulgence for the time being, and let's get on with it. ...

HOST LFST RB3000:   Now we will take just one more comment, from DLewis ...  ready?

DLewisSticky:   thanks..99% of the people I know would think "alternate reality" was a car part and multi-dimensional is a super vitamin.  So this is not "normal" conversation for most folks...I'll have to work on how to fit it into "real life".

HOST LFST RB3000:   DLewisSticky, good point ... BUT ...

HOST LFST RB3000:   ... this whole paradigm I am laying out here regards your "real life" as at best a dream which can be changed, and which indeed changes 50 million times a day. We have learned to ignore all these changes, and also to ignore all the underpinnings.  This material shows how to take back control and discover the other worlds.


HOST LFST RB3000:   ******* EXCELLENT POINTS, friends.  Again, please hold your comments while I roll out the next idea, which is what the real world would be like without our delusional programming.  Please wait till I let you know we're ready again.   .......................


HOST LFST RB3000:   JUST IMAGINE where and what you would be if the world stopped, if nothing had any form or significance imposed upon it, if everything were numinous and sentient and equal, and nothing at all!

     Imagine seeing as if through an amazing holographic crystal wherein sight, hearing, touch, and the 27 other senses (more or less) were apprehended at once, as if by an alien intelligence instead of what you once regarded as "your mind."


HOST LFST RB3000:   DO YOU THINK that I am talking about some hallucinatory psychosis, or an "acid trip" that went terribly wrong? I have to suppose that's possible, but the mystics regard the "ordinary" world as the "hallucination that went wrong."

     The first difference between the two perceptions is energy -- the world of the Other, the Supernatural, is approached from ecstatic religious states, but more often from fright, intense love or near-death experience.

       Many "authorities" of the ordinary world would argue that these kinds of states are not to be trusted -- that someone who has undergone terror or bliss or transfixation is not in their "right mind".


HOST LFST RB3000:   FRIENDS, I am here to tell you that it is those very "authorities" who are not in their *Right Mind*, because they regard what they can see through their low-power binoculars as all that should be seen, much like the mediaeval church when Galileo was observing the movements of Jupiter's moons.

       But it is fair to ask, "How do I know I am not going mad?"  The dissolving of the ego-view IS madness so, many thousands of years ago, we installed esoteric societies trained in specific disciplines, and safeguarded the underlying keys and principles in crystals and in the DNA and in certain kinds of plants and geographic formations.

       So then, a disciple DOES go mad in a controlled manner, although it may not seem so to him or her, for a little while, after which something far more understanding, compassionate, brilliant and intelligent awakens.


HOST LFST RB3000:   NOBODY IN THEIR right mind is willing to take that kind of chance with themselves so, generally, they are hoodwinked into it until they do not feel safe going back out into the old world.

       Of course most of the time this becomes cult indoctrinations with severe dependency, because it is extremely rare to find a genuine esoteric point that is still true to its underpinnings.

       Apparently this problem was anticipated, and pretty much has to be this way, so most sincere seekers do get trapped by cults several times along the way, and most fail to ever find a true way. (It is also in the tradition that I attempt to scare you away with this kind of talk. :)


HOST LFST RB3000:   BUT ONCE IN A WHILE, one may find a safe harbor of transformation, and may awaken to what has been promised us in every story, legend and scripture in the history of the world, but all obscure, in code, indirectly.

       Some people find a "skeleton key" -- some drug or plant, or a technique -- that forces the Secret open. Can they use what they find? Can they open that door without setting off its self-destruct trigger?

       Why are we asked to *cleanse* the doors of perception in order "to see the world as it really is -- infinite" (although "infinite" does not even begin to describe it)?


HOST LFST RB3000:   ***** ALL RIGHT, friends.  The floor is once again open for discussion about the transcendental world.  Go ahead now please.


RickDs7:           Are you saying that some growth occurs outside of language, space/time, and that we might eclipse  it.....and that this "growth" will effect our day to day world positively?

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, I suppose you could say that, but the transformation may destroy one's "day-to-day life", as it did mine, to my ultimate benefit, but not for the benefit of "getting along" for sure!

RickDs7:           Than I disagree...I think if it is of will lead us to a life of service and altruism... not "destroy us"

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, sounds like we do agree :)

RickDs7:           Host  right....but some "breaking down" frequently occurs before growth....


DLewisSticky:   Soooo, how do us "normal" folks who have jobs, kids, hobbies be able to accomplish something like this?

Addieessie:       yes - like yogananda... gurus...  even Mother Theresa. i agree with you rick and...

PathOSages:     I have kids...job....the whole have to find it for self...............

Addieessie:       i am here to participate... and hopefully learn but...

RickDs7:           You accomplish it by the way you self, thee world...God

RickDs7:           And we all have jobs, responsibilities...all "normal" people here

HOST LFST RB3000:   DLewis, this work has to be done "in-life", and it is never easy to do that. In my local group, we have been making huge sacrifices, and it is paying off.

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, do you understand what I just told DLewis?

RickDs7:  do you "do it" with a ton of responsibilities...

RickDs7:           We're all in the same point

Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 13] 8/23/2001 09:00 PM

RickDs7:           It is done within the context of these responsibilities...within  life....

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, yes, this question always comes up, and also, what do people in outlying areas do, especially when things don't get scheduled till the last minute. ...

HOST LFST RB3000:   ... and the answer is that those who are ready and serious will drop everything and run to work whenever it is available, and not even when it is possible :)

RickDs7:           I believe it can be done "alone"   and is mostly a matter of relationship...attitude

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, what I am illustrating in this course can almost never be done alone, because the ego gets dissolved, and it can't reconstruct itself quickly enough, or in the right way.

RickDs7:           I am not so impressed with those who leave life to enhance it

RickDs7:           And real  stuff is done in life....

HOST LFST RB3000:   Addiessie, are you complete now?

Addieessie:       i think... i will never be complete :)  i'll be good and listen :)

RickDs7:           But we're never alone really....if God is revealed through all....

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, ultimately yes, we stand alone at the end, but not in the middle.

Addieessie:       ?

JLook91968:    you said you made sacrifices - what were they?

HOST LFST RB3000:   JLook, Yes, I have sacrificed all the "things of life" for this path, and everything now has to line up behind it.

JLook91968:    I don't understand - what things?

RickDs7:           (hoping you haven't sacrificed well  being of family...)

HOST LFST RB3000:   JLook, home, career, retirement -- this work is now my life.


HOST LFST RB3000:   ***** OK, time to move on now.  I shall now roll out the next idea, which is on the exquisite perceptual and cognitive power of the Whole Self.


HOST LFST RB3000:   WE HAVE BEEN trained to "sit" in a very limited and fragmented assortment of "assemblages" not even necessarily connected with each other.

     Some of these proclivities are natural, based upon types given according to the various astrologies and numerologies, phrenology, physical type, race, gender and geographical position.

     The artificial "add-on" ingredients to our types, stem from nationality, culture, community and nuclear family (that is, added to our basic essence after birth).


HOST LFST RB3000:   SHAMANIC PARADIGMS also distinguish among configurations of "chambers" within the energy body and "emanations" by which they can determine who can hold various gradiants of the "nagual", which kinds of totems, fetishes and allies, and who can operate with the various powers and visions.

     People who conform to and live by their natural types can, for example, have successful prearranged marriages, and they can know their destiny on the earth.

     Then it is possible to make accurate predictions for them using the enneagram, I-Ching, Tarot or other divination tools.


HOST LFST RB3000:   MOST PEOPLE, however, are so fragmented and so separated from their natural composition that the only things that can be predicted for them are:

a) that everything "just happens" to them and for them, no matter how brilliant they seem and no matter how much they appear to be in control of their lives, how wealthy, how popular, how successful, nor how powerful they seem, and

b) they will die purposelessly and in as profound ignorance and helplessness as stray dogs.


HOST LFST RB3000:   THE POINT I hope to make here is that we don't know ourselves even as others know us according to their personal biases but, instead, go to any extreme to justify our words, actions and attitudes, or to condemn ourselves for not being in control, not being able to keep our resolutions and promises.

     The reason we cannot is that none of us is a unified Being at this level, and what we call our "waking consciousness" is almost entirely made up of a limited number of labels, predefined categories and a poorly functioning mechanism for dropping all of one's impressions into the cookie cutters of our filters and biases.  Gurdjieff calls this the "formatory apparatus".

     In addition, we are constantly describing to ourselves, internally, everything that we encounter, instead of really being present and engaged in the moment, much like the proverbial American tourist who doesn't know where he was until after his pictures have been developed.


HOST LFST RB3000:   AS I HAVE MENTIONED before, the remedy for this situation is to become very quiet within, to set up a Witness attention that remains vigilant through all of our transitions of consciousness, and to do thorough and completely honest self-scrutiny under the supervision of a genuine esoteric lineage, however difficult it may be to come across one.

       Actually, one never does *find* the way.  We are forced to grope in helpless despair for a long time, usually, and then, like Glenda descending in her luminous bubble, the Way finds us and explains that we could have gone home all along, except that we had dismissed the power of our "ruby slippers" (our embedded keys).


Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 14] 8/23/2001 09:15 PM


HOST LFST RB3000:   ***** ALL RIGHT, friends.  The floor is yet again open for discussion on the Whole Self and its hidden magical properties.

HOST LFST RB3000:   I believe Addiessie has been waiting longest ...

Addieessie:       the thought was on the last section - about aloneness.. you still want it?

HOST LFST RB3000:   Addieessie, yes, please.

Addieessie:       think we are all alone - because we all travel different paths to discover that oneness with all

Addieessie:       i may travel with another a while but my experiences are mine

Addieessie:       my truths are mine

HOST LFST RB3000:   Addieessie, the paths may seem different, but there are said to be only three lines we can go in.

HOST LFST RB3000:   ... The three lines are the way of the faqir, the way of the monk and the way of the yogi, or the physical way, the emotional way and the intellectual way.  Of course there is the spiritual way.

Addieessie:       yes but even if others are on the same path..

Addieessie:       they will not experience as i until we are one

HOST LFST RB3000:   Addieessie, what is your main point then?

Addieessie:       that we are always all alone

Addieessie:       but i don't see that as a negative thing

HOST LFST RB3000:   Addieessie, seems so a lot of the time, but it's not really true, we find.


HOST LFST RB3000:   Any more questions or comments before we go on?

DCizunas:         So where would spontaneity fit in to the picture?

HOST LFST RB3000:   DCizunas, spontaneity comes after discipline, just like in music or art.  I am receiving spontaneously every day now, but I put in a half century of woodshed.

DCizunas:         3K I do the same thing :)

HOST LFST RB3000:   DCizunas, I know you do. :)

RickDs7:           I agree  -- we are increasingly  fragmented..."divided" with hardly a moment to just "be and I  agree about the scripts we live...that  become alien...

RickDs7:           A good example is theology -- which takes on a life of its own

RickDs7:           ...and people are dying

RickDs7:           One question though

RickDs7:           Which of the three paths did Don Juan lead Castenda on...?

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, Castaneda's was really a "4th-way" path, because it combined the other three ways into a harmonic whole.

RickDs7:           Host   got it....thanks

RickDs7:           (the way I would like to explore...LOL)

HOST LFST RB3000:   ... Don Juan was always simultaneously challenging Castaneda in all channels, right?

RickDs7:           yes

RickDs7:           As there are simultaneous universes (so I believe)

RickDs7:  it...thanks

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, yes, that proves a better paradigm in physics than time-sequence, these days, as well.

RickDs7:           Host  it is the way theoretical physicists  are leading...caught up with Kabbalists...LOL


HOST LFST RB3000:   ***** EXCELLENT POINTS, friends.  Again, please hold your comments while I roll out the next idea, which is Love: the Divine Nature of the Self-in-All.


HOST LFST RB3000:   LOVE is something everybody likes to talk about, but all have a different idea of what it is.  And it is a set of ideas and obsessions for people: "I 'love' you, therefore I own you and control your possible responses" or "... therefore you will betray me or abandon me (and I will make sure of that!)"

     But it is Divine Love that we must discuss here. This is not some mushy greeting-card sentiment that shows this really compassionate-looking guy with a beard, reaching down to take the hands of the little children, or some such.


HOST LFST RB3000:   THE LOVE that I am referring to is in fully embracing each other not only as equals, but as the Self.  It is the Matrix within which we are each part of the Whole, like the fingers of a hand, and yet one is the Whole Being, not some part, not separate, not waiting to be taken somewhere by somebody.

     It is as if I am driving a car full of noisy children -- I am each of the children, who cannot know whither I am taking them, but I do know, as the driver, and I am the only one who can drive them to where we are going.

     And where we are going to is Unity of Being.  Many modern physicists are concluding that we have a parallel reality for every possible different choice we ever make, but they don't realize that there is One Being that is the Sum Total of all my potential, supremely intelligent and compassionate, yet relentless and powerful.  It is you and it is me and it is God and it is a worm or a flea.  All exquisitely, breath-takingly Beautiful.


HOST LFST RB3000:   BUT PLEASE BE CLEAR on just this one point: this Being we refer to as "it", is ME, it's YOU -- there are no separate pieces.  There is no "my future self", no "thin me", no "me that gets up in the morning."

       And there is no "God in heaven" or "Jesus on the cross" who are not the same ME and the same YOU.  But then, why do we take such fierce pride in our "uniqueness" and our "up-dog-ness"?

HOST LFST RB3000:   Can we even exist without glorifying and deifying our differences? Would we still be a "we"?  What would the world be like if I could no longer say "I" or "me"?



HOST LFST RB3000:   **** ALL RIGHT, friends.  The floor is once again open for discussion about Love-in-All.  Go ahead now please ........................

Galaxon:           ego is needed to appear separate so we can experience oneness

Galaxon:           or twoness

HOST LFST RB3000:   Galaxon, that's as good a way to put it as any I can think of.  But is it necessary to forget everything else in the process?

Galaxon:           you mean necessary to forget we are one? yes...that is the idea

Galaxon:           if we came here knowing who we are....that'd defeat the idea of coming here at all.

HOST LFST RB3000:   Galaxon, that's a question I have been studying, and don't yet have an answer for.

Galaxon:           if we already knew who we were...we couldn’t create being who we are from scratch and couldn’t experience it - total knowing:)

HOST LFST RB3000:   Galaxon, I suppose, but I think there has to be a way around it.

DCizunas:         So this might be the time-line evolution, for incarnates to get to that point?

HOST LFST RB3000:   DCizunas, one time mainly because it all exists only in a single Moment, at the Singularity of Existence.  Then all elaboration in time or space has to be dream, right?

HOST LFST RB3000:   ... and then, "incarnates" are merely puppets in the dream of Consciousness.

HOST LFST RB3000:   DCizunas, does that make any sense to you?

RickDs7:           To my surprise I understand this and agree with it...LOL

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, that's a big bite to swallow :)

DCizunas:         So we have been through the savage era and now need this new one to complete the Moebius strip

HOST LFST RB3000:   DCizunas, *through* the savage era???  We are right in the middle of it!  :)

Jesusisrealok:  Are you saying that we are all one ,and we don't know who we are?

HOST LFST RB3000:   Jesusisrealok, Yes, that is right!  :)

RickDs7:           Comment:  We are never fully of this world...and never fully of others....

Jesusisrealok:  I disagree

RickDs7:           But with work...we become less of this world...and ironically we understand more of this world

RickDs7:           We see everything from a new "situational" perspective

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, in a way, but we approach everything differently, right?

RickDs7:           Yes -- depending on culture. mores....language

Jesusisrealok:  I don't think that i'm joined with someone that wants nothing out of life.

HOST LFST RB3000:   Jesusisrealok, me neither, so we agree. :)

LaNinaAngel:    I have one foot on this three-dimensional world and the other in the spirit realm

DevineAngelDiva:          or all One In god The universe

RickDs7:           We are all of God...and seeking to reunite more fully with God (I believe)

HOST LFST RB3000:   ... Now it's not so important that everything turn out a certain way, but more on how we work with it and what we receive from our efforts, I find.

RickDs7:           Seeking to "remember" our identity...our "piety"

Galaxon:           the way around it is to assume as true what the

Galaxon:           masters have said and believe and act as if it is true,

Galaxon:           turn inside us for the "christ" inside us all. we are God

HOST LFST RB3000:   Galaxon, yes, that is a fair way to put it.  :)

VikingGraybeard:          Isn't time and space one and the same?

Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 20] 8/23/2001 09:45 PM

HOST LFST RB3000:   VikingGraybeard, only in that they are both artificial constructs of illusion. 

HOST LFST RB3000:   In over-cosmos, time and space are not even defined.

HOST LFST RB3000:   VikingGraybeard, make any sense to you?

VikingGraybeard:          Not really, but I'm working on it!

RickDs7:           Vik   time and space are confined to our world -- in that sense they are the same....

DevineAngelDiva:          Well Like I said we are all connected all One


HOST LFST RB3000:   ***** GREAT COMMENTS, friends.  I shall now roll out the next idea, which is on "The Future of Eternity" -- what is there to do, once we have transcended?


HOST LFST RB3000:   WE HAVE BEEN promised immortality, and maybe we have glimpsed a taste of it somehow, but what could it really be like to live in *forever-and-ever*?

       If it means "a really, really, REALLY long time, most of us would have no idea how to keep from getting bored and "suiciding".  But the teachings tell us (and it is easily demonstrated) that eternity crosses the time-line in another dimension, so length-of-time is meaningless for it.


HOST LFST RB3000:   THERE IS A PERFECT example "in our own universe": imagine a binary star with a hungry black hole as one of its members. As it swallows its neighbor's body, the material accelerates in an intense circle about the event horizon, quickly approaching the speed of light.

       As the star's material "passes" the threshold of the event horizon, powerful bursts of energy blast into space.


HOST LFST RB3000:   WE HAVE BEEN SAYING that the material "falls into" the black hole, but that can't really happen, because "falling" implies downward acceleration, which is a function of "distance" over "time".

       But time stops completely at the speed of light, and distance-over-space is not defined within the event horizon. (Technically, we are already inside of the event horizon of the ultimate Black Hole!)

     But we "know" that "matter" "collapses" to a single "point" in a black hole or, perhaps more accurately, all the "mass" of a black hole appears to be located at the singularity, regardless of how it "got there."


HOST LFST RB3000:   IT TURNS OUT that this is the case for our ordinary "earth-lives" as well -- that the whole sense of massiveness, of solidity, of sequence of time and of cause-and-effect -- all of these are merely artificial mental constructs to compensate for answering to the Mystery of Existence.

     Then the point is, frustratingly, we simply cannot know any more about the "daily existence" of a Supreme Being than my cat understands my study of computers, or how a democratic form of government interacts with a monarchy, for example.

HOST LFST RB3000:   No language for it, no model, no symbols, no wiring, not enough cognitive power for it. (Here we are bypassing the whole discussion about what dimensions cats can operate in, and what they know in their own method of mentation. That will be its own entire class series.)


HOST LFST RB3000:   JUST BECAUSE we can't *describe* blissful all-at-once-ness, doesn't mean that we can't *witness* it, and that is what the disciplines we have discussed here seek to accomplish: to allow us first to witness the incomprehensible Mystery, and then to enter into it.

       In eternity.  In the omni-rainbow, holographic hyper-dream of all Divine Beings, everything-that-is-God, all the pain, all the grief, all the agony at once.  All the joy, all satisfaction, all gratitude and awe and triumph and love at once.


HOST LFST RB3000:   HOW BEAUTIFUL and perfect and exquisite and powerful can you allow this to be for yourself?  How much does your soul yearn for completion, for ultimate affirmation?

       How magical and sublime are you willing the Mystery of Existence to be?  How much can you insist, demand, require and die for the totality of all that you are?  Is anything else even worth thinking about?


HOST LFST RB3000:   AT THIS POINT, I will conclude with a sacred song that I channeled three years ago, entitled The Crown of Being.  Imagine it sung with an eerie, slow Afro-Amazonian rhythm:


You have shown me the Truth, O God — I can never forget it;

You have changed all the ways I am; I now belong to You all ways.



Be with me, my Eternal Creator.

Live in me, O Flower of Perfection.

I now give up my former life and all the pain it included.  :|



 You have stretched me beyond my bounds, out beyond the horizon;

You have brought me to the very brink of the Immaculate Conception.



O my God, how do I deserve such beauty?

O my Queen, have you guided me always?

You birth Divinity right out of my heart and my belly.  :|



I am standing here in my place, beside my brothers and sisters;

But the Almighty stands with us in terrible dimension.



The earth trembles, the rivers run backwards;

Everything I’ve known has fallen to pieces,

And at Your slightest touch, illusion dissolves in foam vapors.   :|



You have created us all alike, with just mirror distortions;

Am I looking at them or You -- just what is it I am not seeing?



O my God, my Almighty Father;

My Master, please forgive me and save me.

I no longer know how to tell where they begin and I end.   :|



At first thought, we were many legion, but now it looks like we are seven;

How could the Three of Us include all history and experience?



Who am I, that You fill me with wonders?

So much Love, Perfection and Brilliance—

I was never aught but dust, and You are the whole of my Being.  :|



HOST LFST RB3000:   ***** ALL RIGHT, friends.  That is all I have to offer you, so the floor is now open for discussing Ultimate Beingness.


RickDs7:           Reminds me of "shalom"  it does not mean peace but is a Hebrew conceptualization for God....

Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 16] 8/23/2001 10:00 PM

RickDs7:  means something  like all....that which we know and cannot....

RickDs7:           It is used as a word for peace...because  the Kabbalists felt that understanding

RickDs7:           this leads to a sense of peace....

RickDs7:           Same tri-literal root structure by the way

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDS7, that's right-- most of the Hebrew and Aramaic seem to be encodings. Apparently, it was intended that we understand them differently each time we recite them.

RickDs7:           Right....Buber felt is wasn't about the words...what is behind or beyond words....

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, it's at a lot of levels-- the words are one level, the rhythm, the swaying, the dancing, etc.

RickDs7:           Host   exactly....


HOST LFST RB3000:   (FRIENDS, even though tonight's class was the final session of this series, the work continues. Everyone who has kept up with the sessions, logs and practices is invited to correspond with me about any questions, comments or ideas you have.)

RickDs7:           unlike conventional hermaneutics...Rabbinic comentaries operate on many levels

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, I find that we have to pick and choose among the "authorities".

RickDs7:           Nice job...couldn't sit in other sessions....but I like your perspective

CorvaVolpa:      very interesting thank you RB

Addieessie:       still just sittin here - listenin to the silence and imagining the music...

DCizunas:         This has been an exteremly interesting and informative class...thank you for your time 3K :)

RickDs7:           Add   almost always listening to music (literally -- with  headphones)

LaNinaAngel:    My main guide and my warriors are African...I have heard that song done to the drums and in Urba...

Addieessie:       me too rick :)

HOST LFST RB3000:   DCizunas, thank you for your attention :)

LaNinaAngel:    the higher the drums play, the more feverish the dance...the world melts aways and it is understood by the spirit without words...

RickDs7:           Nina... Orishas?

LaNinaAngel:    si Orishas....

Ankh334:          Nina, that is done in many cultures throughout the world

RickDs7:           Oggun?

Addieessie:       like ragas and sagas...

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, or "Orixas" as they say in Brasil - I've witnessed some of them.

LaNinaAngel:    :)) Rick Y Elegua

RickDs7:           Host   likewise

RickDs7:           Obatala here

HOST LFST RB3000:   LaNinaAngel, yes, it gets very, very high. :)

Jesusisrealok:  Going back to peace- it's holdiess,nothing missing, nothing broken

RickDs7:           In Africa they work up quite a the ashe releases....

RickDs7:           and another level of awareness is reaches....the idea that the Orishas are within us well

LaNinaAngel:    amen..I have seen many tribes take everyone with them on the spiritual journey

LaNinaAngel:    My guide...speaks to me in urba...and although, i dont speak, i understand her

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, I lose as much as ten pounds in some of those rituals. :)

LaNinaAngel:    I get spirital imagines in my third eye

LaNinaAngel:    understandings that words cannot be made to label

LaNinaAngel:    amen have I

HOST LFST RB3000:   RickDs, I get that the Orixas are *made* out of us, and vice versa.

LaNinaAngel:    amen Host

RickDs7:           Host   right...a matrix of energies as Phillip Niemark put it...


HOST LFST RB3000:   OK, FRIENDS-- that's it for me tonight, and that's it for this whole class series.  Come visit me and guests on Wednesday nights, at midnight

LaNinaAngel:    Thank you RB3000

RickDs7:           Nice job...take care hosts....

HOST LFST MikeB:      Bye and thank you to everyone it was a great class series

LaNinaAngel:    and Host Mike

HOST LFST Heart:       Namaste' everyone

LaNinaAngel:    Namaste

VikingGraybeard:          Bye Hosts

Addieessie:       take care hosts :):):)  and thank you :)

HOST LFST RB3000:   Good night, friends... <poof>

Log Entry:         The New Age [Members - 15] 8/23/2001 10:14 PM