PowerChat:  *** Entered The New Age on 11/22/99 at 07:28 PM ***

Log Count:  There were 28 member(s) in The New Age at 07:30 PM

RBCF Herm: okay, we are done for tonight, I now turn the room over to

RBCF Herm: the next shift who have a wonderful chat lined up for all of you

Jes Lil old me:   What's up next, 3000?

RBCF 3000: Ok, friends-- we'll be on informal protocol for the next hour-and-a-half, for this brand new

RBCF 3000: class on Ecstatic Awareness.

RBCF 3000: Tonight is the first of a 25-week series.

Jes Lil old me:   3000, could you explain what informal protocol is, please?

RBCF Arwen:       Welcome, , to our class in Ecstatic Awareness. In

RBCF Arwen:       this context, the word "ecstatic," refers to the

RBCF Arwen:       mystical usage referring to *outside of* all normal

RBCF Arwen:       states of perception or awareness.  TOS will be

RBCF Arwen:       followed. The class is "informal" protocol. The

RBCF Arwen:       instructor will open a topic, intro it, then go ahead

RBCF Arwen:       with question and answers, repeating this process

RBCF Arwen:       several times. If you have any questions, IM your

RBCF Arwen:       Host, RBCF Arwen.

RBCF Arwen:       Thank you

RBCF 3000: INFORMAL PROTOCOL: "Wait for a paragraph to complete before commenting or questions."

RBCF 3000: Welcome, everyone. Tonight begins our class in Ecstatic

RBCF 3000: Awareness. This means entering into states of consciousness,

RBCF 3000: accompanied by transformation of being, in which the supernatural

RBCF 3000: and the Miraculous can be witnessed, even including the realms of

RBCF 3000: Divinity.

RBCF 3000: The way that I am using the word "ecstatic," I am not speaking of

RBCF 3000: the common vernacular for "very happy" but, rather, the mystical

RBCF 3000: usage referring to *outside of* all normal states of perception or

RBCF 3000: awareness.

RBCF 3000: This means, according to esoteric doctrine, standing outside of the

RBCF 3000: personality, or ego-mask, which is everything that we have been

RBCF 3000: taught, from the time of infancy, as opposed to what we brought in

RBCF 3000: with us: our natural proclivities, our capacities and preferences, our

RBCF 3000: original "wiring," if you will.

RBCF 3000: As children, we are taught, actually entrained and indoctrinated, to

RBCF 3000: perceive and cognate within a "reality" which is deemed acceptable

RBCF 3000: to the given society.

RBCF 3000: ** Does this ring any bells for you all?  Do you need some of the

RBCF 3000: terms explained?

Giggle6210:       yes 3000 rings bells

AutumnPath3:      I am seeing it as about an 8

RBCF 3000: **Comment now, please

NobleSaveg:       unlessthey do as was just done by two and ignore the protical

Quest of balance:       I follow and am curious.

Nenonen:    dhyana bells

Dakopp2:    You are more or less saying ..we are what we belive...

James7289: We are conditioned to see only part of what is real.

RBCF 3000: Dakopp, more or less, perhaps yes

Quest of balance:       If even that, James.  How much of social stuff is

Quest of balance:       really real?

Jes Lil old me:   so the ecxtatic awareness is seeing beyond the veil?

Log Count:  There were 28 member(s) in The New Age at 07:45 PM

REISHISAGE:       That is because until one awakens the parts of brain through sycronicity only 10% is used in

REISHISAGE:       conscious daily life

REISHISAGE:       subconscious life begins at night sleep

REISHISAGE:       or in medition

Kitshanti: Syncronicity????

REISHISAGE:       and  it is false about only 10% brain used , we use all of brain only awaken to other parts

REISHISAGE:       after sycronitcity

Dakopp2:    also  what we are taught to belive..early in physical reality is perhaps a wall to inner sel

Quest of balance:       Does synchronicity merely happen or can we contrive

Quest of balance:       it?

REISHISAGE:       that is the no coincidence no mistakes item....

REISHISAGE:       :>

Kitshanti: What is synchronicity pleeease?

REISHISAGE:       alternate channels of mind / brain of subconscious

RBCF 3000: REISHISAGE, normal people don't use very much at any one time-- more is

RBCF 3000: considered schizophrenic.

REISHISAGE:       daily lives do not use this often

RBCF 3000: Quest of balance, I am finding that *everything* is synchronistic

RBCF 3000: Kitshanti, it is finding out that seemingly unrelated things are intertwined.

Giggle6210:       Kit synchronicity is where everything happens just at the right time with the right meetings

Giggle6210:       of people in the right sequence

Nenonen:    karma ripens?

Kitshanti: In other words what is meant to be?

Jes Lil old me:   so, 3000, then is the ecstatic awareness all about

Jes Lil old me:   awaking our consciousness of the connectedness of what

Jes Lil old me:   seems to be disconnected?

RBCF 3000: Jes Lil old me, it includes that, and much more-- you'll see...

RBCF 3000: (continuing) In view of this notion, all of our deviations-- even

RBCF 3000: criminal, and certainly all our maladies-- are perfectly within the mold

RBCF 3000: of the society.

RBCF 3000: It is also within the mold of societal "consciousness" to talk about

RBCF 3000: other worlds, other dimensions, angels, the supernatural realms and

RBCF 3000: entities, divinity in all forms, and all kinds of special powers and gifts

REISHISAGE:       a note need be said u do not go seek sychronicity it occur when u stop all conscious thought

RBCF 3000: that some unique individuals happen to be born with or acquire

RBCF 3000: through some miracle over which they had no control.

REISHISAGE:       of ways to make things occur

RBCF 3000: REISHISAGE, very good point

SheBeastMstr:      we are all not born with this gift??

REISHISAGE:       all are born with what u call gift

REISHISAGE:       not all use it or access it

RBCF 3000: SheBeastMstr, we are all born with the DNA programs, the neural wiring and

RBCF 3000: the native abilities, but then we mostly get it trained out of us. Also, it

RBCF 3000: takes a lot of focus of attention and other skills we can learn.

SheBeastMstr:     ah ok

RBCF 3000: REISHISAGE, does the above answer your question for now too?

SOULBRO1:   yeah

RBCF 3000: (continuing a bit more)

RBCF 3000: Furthermore, it is customary to ascribe all possibilities to ourselves:

RBCF 3000: consciousness, immortality (at least in some form), *will*,

RBCF 3000: permanence of ego, and the ability to *do* (at least if I really

RBCF 3000: *wanted* to enough).

RBCF 3000: In esoteric and mystical tradition, *none* of these qualities belong to

RBCF 3000: ordinary people but, through super-efforts over the course of

RBCF 3000: decades, and with a great deal of help and luck, a person *may*

RBCF 3000: achieve some of them in time, before our organism has deteriorated

RBCF 3000: too much.

RBCF 3000: **** It may seem like I am contradicting myself a bit here, no?

Jes Lil old me:   nope

SheBeastMstr:     <think im with ya

RBCF 3000: In New Age circles that I hang out in, people love to ascribe all these

RBCF 3000: qualities to themselves with no effort whatsoever.  Does it seem fair to

RBCF 3000: require a lot of discipline and patience?

Giggle6210:       3000 seems reasonable but hard

RBCF 3000: (comments here, please

LucidDreamweaver:       fair is not an issue really

SheBeastMstr:     yes

Quest of balance:       any true qualities would not need to be ascribed per se

SheBeastMstr:     is fair

Jes Lil old me:   Fair has nothing to do with it. To build any skill requires practice and discipline

RBCF 3000: Giggle, it's hard to learn the piano or astrophysics too, but is it worth the

RBCF 3000: effort?

James7289: It comes easier to some than others, but we all have our work to do

James7289: this time around that is a challenge to us.

TESLA21058:       who decides what is fair for self?

SheBeastMstr:     practic makes for perfect

Kitshanti: Perhaps for some it comes naturally but for others it has to take discipline and practice.

Log Count:  There were 24 member(s) in The New Age at 08:00 PM

Giggle6210:       3000 I don't know the answer to that

James7289: Abilities we mastered in past lives may come easy

RBCF 3000: TESLA, is it about fair, or about what our soul wishes to accomplish?

Dakopp2:    there is alot of effort........to see inside ones self

TESLA21058:       3K..I believe the latter...the heart's quest

TESLA21058:       what intent one will place upon goals for the self

RBCF 3000: Giggle, I can't prove that the people who decide that efforts aren't

RBCF 3000: necessary are wrong, so it is up to our own conscience, it seems,  no?

James7289: Yes which limits are real and which self-imposed.

TESLA21058:       fair is dividing a cupcake between children

Quest of balance:       Maybe it is like practicing an instrament, and fine

Quest of balance:       tuning.

RBCF 3000: ... I just find that I am getting paid off handsomely for a few decades of

RBCF 3000: hard work

Kitshanti: I like that fine tuning thought

Giggle6210:       3000 My conscience needs a change of heart

RBCF 3000: Quest of balance, good way to put it

Dakopp2:    to go to where true consciousness begins is not an easy task......

TESLA21058:       the older the better 3K 

LucidDreamweaver:       lol

SheBeastMstr:     I think it is fair what you put into something you get back

RBCF 3000: Giggle, I consider your Conscience to BE your heart!

REISHISAGE:       Dak because one cannot think their way to that place :>

Giggle6210:       3000 then I am in big trouble, might as well give up now

RBCF 3000: Dakopp, right-- that's why the complacent and the hypocrites needn't

RBCF 3000: bother

Dakopp2:    thought is all that is.....

RBCF 3000: Giggle, sometimes we have to "give up" to go on further, ironically

TESLA21058:       knowing the path is not the same as walking the path

REISHISAGE:       for some yes they go through entire lives thinking just that thought Dak

Yogi Salguod:     yes and no Dak

Dakopp2:    thank you ....3000

REISHISAGE:       and make it so

Quest of balance:       But there is something about being ready to do so,

Quest of balance:       Dakopp

Giggle6210:       3000 perhaps so


Yogi Salguod:     thought is all that is, yes and no

SheBeastMstr:     maybe wanting?

RBCF 3000: If we study the origins of religion and mythology, we can see

RBCF 3000: references to these possibilities everywhere, and all of the stories and

RBCF 3000: depictions refer to the procedures, alchemies and invocations that

RBCF 3000: are required.

RBCF 3000: These stories are almost all metaphorical, except for some which

RBCF 3000: were intended to be taken literally, but which we, in our group mind-

RBCF 3000: mold, take as metaphor.



RBCF 3000: It is almost as if we have constructed a mechanism

RBCF 3000: ("formatory apparatus" or "kundabuffer", according to

RBCF 3000: one of my teachers) which specifically deletes the greater

RBCF 3000: significance of anything we try to apprehend.

Giggle6210:       no that was new

Quest of balance:       that is from childhood programming?

Giggle6210:       3000 why would we construst such a mechanism??  for what purpose?

Nierika:    also language...is part of the kundabuffer

Nenonen:    another name "interface";-)

RBCF 3000: Here would be a good place for straightening out about the diff

RBCF 3000: between "thoughts" and automatic mental reactions.

Nierika:    language, culture, childhood experiences, etc. <~~all kundabuffer

LucidDreamweaver:       So the bible was written as guide for the evolutionary development of the human conciousness

RBCF 3000: Giggle, we were *taught* to do this from infancy!  To forget

RBCF 3000: about our intuitive and spontaneous perceptions and

RBCF 3000: comprehensions, and to fit everything into little boxes and

RBCF 3000: categories, right?

Nierika:    yes...

Giggle6210:       okay 3000 makes sense

Nierika:    and school...education is a big part of this side of us getting cabashed

Dakopp2:    Cells do have their own consciouness

Wingsoligh:       what is this

RBCF 3000: LucidDreamweaver, the experiments IN the Bible were taught

RBCF 3000: for this reason-- the book itself has been changed a lot by

RBCF 3000: "flat" people, though

Quest of balance:       maybe that is why we come into our own one day,

Quest of balance:       Dakopp.

Nierika:    topic chat on ecstatic experience, Ana, Wings

RBCF 3000: Dakopp, that is true, and we will see this for ourselves when we

RBCF 3000: get into ecstatic consciousness

Wingsoligh:        nie what is that?

Dakopp2:    true

Nierika:    I guess that is what we are here to discuss, Wings

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, and I am also very vague, I'm afraid

Alisnntrnt:       Nierika, schools teach what society demands

Alisnntrnt:       IMO

Nierika:    RBCF...would it be appropriate to discuss avenues to this type of awareness?

RBCF 3000: Sure-- go ahead.

Nierika:    Yes...they do, Alis...and they are still part of what squashes us

Alisnntrnt:       not all of us Nierika 

SheBeastMstr:     <teacher and yuppers to that

Wingsoligh:        Like I told Jill some of us Cant not understand what you are saying

Nierika:    mysticism is one avenue...mystical awareness

Nierika:    shamanic awareness is another -- called by Mircea Eliade the vehical for ecstasy

Nierika:    of course, there is spontaneous experience, the ah ha types...

Wingsoligh:       Its Not My fault I have  dislexia

Nierika:    anyone else have any thoughts about avenues...to ecstatic awareness

KAT3NHM:    anyone here consider themselves a deist?

Nierika:    and what is it anyway? why would we want to have it?

Quest of balance:       maybe meditation, Nierika.

TESLA21058:       meditation, yoga, etc

Nierika:    oh...absolutely Quest...merci beaucoups

Quest of balance:       yes, yoga.

Nierika:    yes...sufi dancing...

Wingsoligh:       tHAT Somthing like  spirutual awareness

Nierika:    many cultural methods of reaching ecstatic states

Log Count:  There were 28 member(s) in The New Age at 08:15 PM

Wingsoligh:        The soul or the psyche

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, we are discussing about how we grew up with

RBCF 3000: society's beliefs and ways of thinking and seeing, and how we

RBCF 3000: can get back to seeing the way little children and even animals

RBCF 3000: do-- make sense?

Nierika:    <~~I seek it/experience it because when I do I feel connected with All...

Nierika:    and All is a part of me and I of the All

Nierika:    and this is bliss unimagined

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, yes, I think you have the idea

Wingsoligh:       Oh I was abused

Quest of balance:       oh, I do wish I could stay but I cant.  Thank you for

Quest of balance:       having me.

Wingsoligh:        I always Thaught I was evil

Nierika:    {{{{Wings}}}}} me too... you are/were never evil...of course

LunaticZen:       the  "noblesavage"  idea...

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, a lot of sensitives were abused as children-- it

Dakopp2:    evil is an illusion

RBCF 3000: seems to help us understand others, no?

Wingsoligh:       when I was little by age 14  I had had A spirit guide

Wingsoligh:        I thaught I was nuts

Nierika:    shamanic awareness as ecstatic -- the healed healer...

RBCF 3000: Dakopp, it gets real enough if we feed it with our attention,

RBCF 3000: right?

TESLA21058:       others yes 3K...but self?

RBCF 3000: TESLA, others what?  I think I missed the point here.

Wingsoligh:       Yes but Grpowning up catholic

SheBeastMstr:     <missed the point

Nierika:    Who  has experienced ecstacy? and how? what is the purpose?

James7289: ::::whoosh:::

Wingsoligh:        My mom always used to say durring A tanturum That the devil was in me

TESLA21058:       helps to understand others 3000...but we

TESLA21058:       have a very hard time with understanding

TESLA21058:       and accepting self

LunaticZen:       < has experienced ecstacy

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, at least you knew what you had-- it took me much

RBCF 3000: longer to understand what was going on with me.

Dakopp2:    if you believe in it you only create it for you ....

Wingsoligh:        I asosiated That with the excorsist

SheBeastMstr:     i think i have to

Nierika:    also percussion -- drumming, rattling...and singing -- chanting...are vehicles

LunaticZen:       "what is found now is found then "  Kabir

RBCF 3000: TESLA, yes, we have (are?) a built-in blind spot, right?

Wingsoligh:       Rbcf I am still nuturing The child

Nierika:    Wings...you were blessed with a helper to assist you in healing and growing

TESLA21058:       yes 3K..that is what I meant

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, in meditation, or in intense emotional crisis?

Giggle6210:       Dakopp what if you were taught to believe things for day after day after week after month

FlowrNtheWind:    ?

Giggle6210:       for years??  How do you undo that??

TESLA21058:       I can see in others what I can't seem to see in me sometimes

LunaticZen:       3000 more an extended mediataion i imagine...

LunaticZen:       crisis infers negative experience  yes?

Wingsoligh:       Now I see That my mom was verry  abusive with her words

Nierika:    You can undo it anytime...as soon as you realize it is possible

LunaticZen:       as opposed to  intense?

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, I found myself inventing techniques for doing that

RBCF 3000: before I knew that they were techniques

Wingsoligh:       used to drink Witch to This day I rarly drink

LucidDreamweaver:       Giggle.. You must examine your beliefs and ask your self what purpose do they serve

Nierika:    crisis also refers to opportunity...

LunaticZen:       for  extending the med?

Wingsoligh:       I think I am finaly healing

RBCF 3000: FlowrNtheWind, do you have a question?

James7289: :::puts on shades to see Lucids font:::::

Dakopp2:    you must chage all of past belives by findig inner self..Giggle

Wingsoligh:        The bigest step Was letting goi of My dad

TESLA21058:       me too James...reading minds again  LOL

Nierika:    in shamanic tradition, the ecstatic state is often preceeded by a physical or emotional

Nierika:    crisis

LucidDreamweaver:       then you can begin changing the belief so a more better one

Giggle6210:       Lucid they serve keeping me safe from a world I view as unsafe and scary

Wingsoligh:        and allowing anouther to comfort me

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, I find that the more psychic I allow myself to be,

RBCF 3000: the more dyslexic I seem to get.  I can't even think "rationally"

RBCF 3000: any more

Nierika:    {{{{Wings}}}} you are very brave to share so openly...thank you

Wingsoligh:       ]=0

TESLA21058:       here too 3000

LunaticZen:       agreed Nierik  sometimes self induced (most times?)

Wingsoligh:       AM verry Psychic

LunaticZen:       by internal philosophy

Wingsoligh:       =)

Sndynasty: Nierikka  it was true for me, I broke over when stressed beyond belief

Nierika:    well...that depends on how you view life itself, Zen...

Wingsoligh:       But many Thinkers were

RBCF 3000: TESLA, do you find that you have to read everything 3 times

RBCF 3000: before you know what it says?

Wingsoligh:        Einstien

LunaticZen:       that it would Nier  <smile> agreed

Wingsoligh:        gahndi

Nierika:    yes...me too Sndy...and the shattering turned into blossoming...and ecstacy

Nierika:    of course, I still struggle

TESLA21058:       yes 3000...and sometimes walk away and come back to it after a break

Nierika:    I am not making a case for self-induced trauma...or any trauma for that matter

Nierika:    Yes Zen <g>

Wingsoligh:       Evin  Winstion churchil had some  learning problems

TESLA21058:       I even have to do it to some of your words here tonight...though I know them already

Garmar67:   Love it when someone talks Shaman

LunaticZen:       i think  personal death experience  does much to facilitate...

Sndynasty: LOL, Nierika, but trauma happens, and according to some, results in ego death, and then

LunaticZen:       the ponderings  that lead to growth...

Giggle6210:       I just can't seem to latch on to any ecstatic awareness, I have a core belief that I can't

Sndynasty: development

Giggle6210:       learn...goodnight

Garmar67:   Einstien....is he related to "Frankensteen?"  

Nierika:    Garmar :-) a comrade on the shamanic path...???

LunaticZen:       or can lead to...  that is

Starborn50:       hi room

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, one of the most psychic people I ever met wrote

RBCF 3000: like a little child-- very hard for her to focus down to that level

RBCF 3000: of detail, it seems.

Wingsoligh:        grma no

Nierika:    Yes...Sndy...this is one of the key elements of the shamanic path

Wingsoligh:       I think I latch on to my child

Nierika:    the ego death...

Wingsoligh:        due to mY PAST LIFE

Garmar67:   Nier....you can call me "comarade" anytime 

Nierika:    often in very dramatic ways

Wingsoligh:        DINENG AS ONE

Wingsoligh:        oops caps

TESLA21058:       3000, do you find you sometimes struggle with everyday common word definitions too?

Nierika:    ah...thanks Garmar :-) same here


Fallen007: Hello what the topic

TESLA21058:       reread the same paragraph deciphering, using a dictionary even

RBCF 3000: TESLA, for sure!  I feel really extraterrestrial sometimes.

Wingsoligh:       Butv The thing was for 25 years I repressed My childhood memorys

Nierika:    I feel intraterrestrial :-)

TESLA21058:       :::whew::: then I am in good company

FlowrNtheWind:    What exactly are we talking about anything directly?

Nierika:    yes...Wings

Wingsoligh:       Until I saw a hypnotherapist

JeannieJ1: what time is this over?

Yogi Salguod:     me too Wings

LunaticZen:       i am very happy and content with my terrestialness ...

LunaticZen:       lol

Nierika:    We are talking about the experience of ecstatic awareness, Flower

RBCF 3000: Fallen, we are having the first class on Ecstatic Awareness--

RBCF 3000: please enjoy!

RBCF 3000: Ok, let's look a bit more at tonight's lessons, so please hold

RBCF 3000: comments for a couple of minutes...

Garmar67:   It's over when the skinny Shaman sings 

LucidDreamweaver:       Please continue

Yogi Salguod:     but I saw no hypnotherapist

Nierika:    LOL

JeannieJ1: lol

RBCF 3000: ******** continuing ********

JeannieJ1: please

Wingsoligh:       Now I do have some memorys

Garmar67:   or drums 

Nierika:    :::sitting up in chair...paying attention:::

RBCF 3000: One very common theme in the old stories, is that certain

RBCF 3000: mortals come to the attention of Spirit, and are compelled

RBCF 3000: to undertake a journey through death, through the

Nierika:    or rattles :-)

RBCF 3000: underworld, where they must pass various tests, any of

RBCF 3000: which would doom their souls.

Nierika:    or smudges...

JeannieJ1: thanks you

Garmar67:   lol

Wingsoligh:       I had To find My teacher Befor I actualy Strted healing

FlowrNtheWind:    Nierika, I am aware of that I was just urious as to what directly

FlowrNtheWind:    astro projestion

RBCF 3000: ******* please hold comments a bit ********

Yogi Salguod:     what does that mean 3000?

Nierika:    yes...the hero's (heroine's) journey...the shamanic crisis

FlowrNtheWind:    phsyic ability

RBCF 3000: Examples of these tests can be found in any "Indiana

RBCF 3000: Jones" movie but, generally, the hardest tests are the

RBCF 3000: inner ones, involving trust and the overcoming of

FlowrNtheWind:    etc...

RBCF 3000: temptation or blaming.

RBCF 3000: Then our hero must find a certain treasure and bring it

RBCF 3000: back to the upper world, past either demon guardians or

RBCF 3000: some other challenge which has to be met with faith, skill,

RBCF 3000: cunning, endurance or even blind luck.

Nierika:    There are quite a few good examples of these tests in the Carlos Casteneda books

Garmar67:   ahhhh.....lay some of that Journey stuff on me...c'mon Joe Campbell..where are ya?

Wingsoligh:       Yes Thats true

RBCF 3000: If the candidate somehow manages to pass all these tests,

RBCF 3000: he may still die, but then his love and faith may attract

RBCF 3000: allies to find him (or his dismembered pieces!) and bring

RBCF 3000: him to the attention of the gods for resurrection.

LunaticZen:       Power of Myth

Yogi Salguod:     3000 are you talking from experience or just the seeking of knowledge?

Nierika:    ahh...Joe Campbell indeed...the latest Star Wars would have done well to have had his input

Nierika:    as did the others

Ddreamtime1:      (((((((((((room)))

Wingsoligh:       I have to get going room mucvh lIght glad To see a spirtual discussion

Nierika:    yes...dismemberment...is part of the journey...the ego death

RBCF 3000: Yogi Salguod, both, really

Nierika:    has anyone experienced this?

Garmar67:   Star Wars....stole old Joe Campbell's ideas...without paying him a dime or footnote!!!

Nierika:    blessings Wings

LunaticZen:       welcome  DDreamy  =)

Yogi Salguod:     cool:))

Wingsoligh:       Light oops

Nierika:    oh...but he consulted directly with Lucas

Garmar67:   but.....where was the recognition?

RBCF 3000: Yogi Salguod, every shaman or priest worth their salt has to go

RBCF 3000: thru such a journey, now as much as thousands of years ago,

Nierika:    well...perhaps he did not need it Garmar

RBCF 3000: right?

Dakopp2:    Consciousness does not directly apply to what most consider physical reality..

Yogi Salguod:     yes

Garmar67:   true....but a footnote would have been nice 

Nierika:    after all, he was highly recognized already...do you think...

Nierika:    yes...RBCF...every one

Ddreamtime1:      hi  Luna  thanks

Nierika:    we all have different versions of this journey, I believe

AutumnPath3:      (left the room for a minute and came back to Star Wars

RBCF 3000: Dakopp, what distinction are you making?  Most of what we call

RBCF 3000: "physical reality" is just an indoctrinated "agreement", I find.

LunaticZen:       your welcome Dear  have a chair

Log Count:  There were 28 member(s) in The New Age at 08:30 PM

Garmar67:   gotta run.....everyone have a great week.....journey.....etc. 

Nierika:    blessings Garmar

LunaticZen:       see ya Gar

LunaticZen:       < gotta run soon

DunRanull: mm y'all

LunaticZen:       3000  that would be  language?

Dakopp2:    most find physical reality the only one

LucidDreamweaver:       what he is saying is that not all of our conciousness is focused in this reality

LunaticZen:       is a tool  as well

RBCF 3000: ** That's actually a good question-- how many of us subscribe

RBCF 3000: to the notion that there is some external "objective" reality "out

RBCF 3000: there"?

LunaticZen:       language has been found to be hard wired into brain

LunaticZen:       by some research...

TESLA21058:       physical reality is a prison

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, only in that language reflects each cultures biases,

RBCF 3000: no?

LunaticZen:       :::readin 3000:::

Nierika:    no external objective reality -- only various and sundry agreements

Ddreamtime1:      mm Ranall

JLook91968:       physial reality is a parabol as well

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, sure, it does get wired in-- that's one reason it is

Nierika:    and so has enlightenment...hard and softwired

RBCF 3000: so hard to undo. But it IS possible...

LunaticZen:       cultural biases?  hmmm.... certainly reflects  defines even culture

LunaticZen:       a major part there of

LunaticZen:       goes back to various  aryan   semite   oriental  et al

LunaticZen:       differences in ways of thinking

Dakopp2:    there are other realities,just as valid as this one

LunaticZen:       3000  i don't wish to undo it myself... why would i wish to be without language?

TESLA21058:       but is it thinking...or faith?  big difference there

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, sure-- if you took an African Bushman or a

RBCF 3000: Trobriand Islander, they wouldn't be able to describe any of the

RBCF 3000: features of "our reality" to themselves, and therefore wouldn't

RBCF 3000: SEE most of it.  Try this out with your cat or dog

JLook91968:       esctatic stuff is just another language

TESLA21058:       LOL

LunaticZen:       3000  not of mine   but of their own they would...they can...

LunaticZen:       describe reality in their own terms

Nierika:    for example...the response of some primal cultures to the photograph

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, after we sort out our indoctrinated beliefs, our

RBCF 3000: language becomes much more precise and powerful, I find.

Nierika:    and intentional...RBCF

LunaticZen:       i totally agree

Yogi Salguod:     you mean most of it doesn't matter

TESLA21058:       <nodding>

LunaticZen:       words can be sharp as scapels  swords  sharper as the sayin goes

RBCF 3000: ** Similarly, we do not see most of what actually exists for us

RBCF 3000: in *objective reality*, if such even exists.

Hiliosport:       Hello

LunaticZen:       but there must be agreement...and

LunaticZen:       a giving up of certain "freedom"  such as...

SapphireSpirit:   hello

RBCF 3000: Yogi Salguod, everything both matters and does not matter,

RBCF 3000: right?

LunaticZen:       the freedom to define a word as you please  as many i find in chat would have it <smile>

LunaticZen:       maledevtox :::coughcough:::

Yogi Salguod:     yes 3000

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, yes-- words can create and destroy universes

LunaticZen:       <jibejibe>

Yogi Salguod:     but mostly doesn't matter

Yogi Salguod:     :))

LunaticZen:       3000  only in mind of humans

Dakopp2:    dream reality is more real than physical reality

LunaticZen:       not  external Universe   we aint that important!

LunaticZen:       lol

LunaticZen:       ya know?

Ddreamtime1:      :) luna

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, is there somewhere else where "realities" exist, but

Yogi Salguod:     yep Zen

RBCF 3000: in the Mind?

LunaticZen:       or...   do ya think we can?

Nierika:    What happened to ecstacy?

LunaticZen:       i dont know 3000  i only seek to know  ...

LunaticZen:       my own Mind

LunaticZen:       and I find  the Universe

Yogi Salguod:     yes

LunaticZen:       part of package  part   parcel

JLook91968:       launguage can define the tree or the forest, but seldom both at the same time

SapphireSpirit:   this is a tough topic..

RBCF 3000: LunaticZen, I don't know if I'd call that a freedom-- once we

RBCF 3000: agree on a glossary, the real freedom is in understanding each

RBCF 3000: other, not being "creative" with meanings, but losing our

RBCF 3000: communication, no?

Yogi Salguod:     and JL what one feels sometimes has no language

Yogi Salguod:     :))

RBCF 3000: SapphireSpirit, that's why we'll be sitting here for 25 weeks

FReeKly1:   hey

SapphireSpirit:   hehe

LunaticZen:       i agree with you there 3000... words are for communication...not obfuscation

Nierika:    I hope we get to ecstacy during that time...

FReeKly1:   what?

JLook91968:       yes, or just a sylable or two...   :))

TESLA21058:       oh yes 3K 

LunaticZen:       depends on intent of user i guess...

Yogi Salguod:     lol

LunaticZen:       words are a tool  can be used many ways

RBCF 3000: *** Ok, I have a little bit more about the role of mythology and

RBCF 3000: such...

LunaticZen:       like any tool

Ddreamtime1:      Lunatic  you are always  and ever the best mind and sweetest

LunaticZen:       ok...

RBCF 3000: ... so please hold comments again for a few

RBCF 3000: ***************

LucidDreamweaver:       Please continue

JLook91968:       try learning the language of the wind in the leaves

LunaticZen:       o Dreamy   you kill me

RBCF 3000: Another ancient theme is that the gods bestow a Gift of

RBCF 3000: Knowledge to a certain group of people who then work

RBCF 3000: with it, usually over a period of decades, and sometimes

RBCF 3000: hundreds of years, until they are able to generate a sort of

RBCF 3000: "divine wave-form" under certain specific conditions.

LunaticZen:       thats you  the Sweetest Darlin

LunaticZen:       =)  sorry rb

RBCF 3000: Outerly these would often look like religious rituals or

RBCF 3000: vision quests to us, or sometimes like the frenzies of

RBCF 3000: tribes-people or the religious festivals of Asia.

FReeKly1:   what kind of name is lunaticZen???

RBCF 3000: If the bestowed group had developed their individual

RBCF 3000: attentions and the other qualities needed, and learned to

RBCF 3000: work together in unison, they may achieve miraculous or

RBCF 3000: sorceric events, or even what may be called "the virgin

RBCF 3000: birth of the deity" in which Divine Essence coalesces in

RBCF 3000: enough concentration that it is not only perceivable, but

LunaticZen:       <stiffleschuckle>

RBCF 3000: may even act on the level of the witnesses.

LunaticZen:       shew  gotta read up RB...one sec

Yogi Salguod:     lol 3000

RBCF 3000: ********* Do you all see where this is going?

SapphireSpirit:   (I am like so lost...)  this sounds like something I want to know about though

FlowrNtheWind:    nope not a clue

Yogi Salguod:     not I

FReeKly1:   what am i talking about my name is freaklt1

SnoLitNite:       yeah.....off my screen! wait for me?

RBCF 3000: SapphireSpirit, it takes a while-- it took me 4 decades to get

RBCF 3000: this stuff down, so don't feel bad

Ddreamtime1:      <looking at lunas  chuckling and smiling >

Dakopp2:    mass consciousness

LucidDreamweaver:       Yes I think I do 3000

SapphireSpirit:   ok 3k

JLook91968:       try being invisble  to the naked eye in the middle of the forest

Yogi Salguod:     that is where I seem to disagree, 3000. now it does not take that long

TESLA21058:       one witness 3000..or every witness

FReeKly1:   hey dream, how old are you??

LunaticZen:       yogi  happened to me in an instant

RBCF 3000: **** So this stuff goes quite beyond ghosts, ETs, elves and

RBCF 3000: humunculoids, do you see?

RBCF 3000: TESLA, everyone participating is a Witness (martyr)

FlowrNtheWind:    I am just sitting on the floor looking up at the wall in awwwwwe

LunaticZen:       :::freshes up DDs drink:::

Yogi Salguod:     well some would say that instant was the result of many lives zen

Yogi Salguod:     but I agree

LunaticZen:       yes   agreed

Yogi Salguod:     with you

TESLA21058:       My perception 3K...just checking

DunRanull: you're talking about an Immanent Epiphany of GOD among humanity?

LunaticZen:       not just a little work in this one too  <=)

FReeKly1:   will someone talk to me ???

LunaticZen:       as you know

LucidDreamweaver:       You are saying that if all of us inlighted ones would unite we could create a new age

LunaticZen:       Hi Freek! :::wavin:::

Ddreamtime1:      <TO lUNA  thank youdear >

LucidDreamweaver:       Is this it 3000?

FReeKly1:   whats up??

RBCF 3000: TESLA, in the inner chamber, they never have spectators-- so

RBCF 3000: they have some tricks to show in the outer courts of the

Yogi Salguod:     no Lucid we are all one

RBCF 3000: temples.

Dakopp2:    yes ....luicd

LunaticZen:       Freek  we are following the RBCFs...in convo...

Yogi Salguod:     and we will walk together

LucidDreamweaver:       Yes

FReeKly1:   no

LunaticZen:       about  physical reality  and Spirituality  i think anyway...

LunaticZen:       and  the  "ecastic"

RBCF 3000: LucidDreamweaver, unite in very particular ways, which I will be

RBCF 3000: describing in coming weeks and months (years?)

TESLA21058:       yes 3K...all volunteers

LunaticZen:       yes RB?

LucidDreamweaver:       Great

RBCF Arwen:       Freek...this is a topic chat, please wait 15 more minutes for free chat

FReeKly1:   ok

Yogi Salguod:     3000 you know there is not such thing as time

LunaticZen:       <heehee>

Log Count:  There were 26 member(s) in The New Age at 08:45 PM

RBCF Arwen:       thank you

RBCF 3000: Yogi Salguod, exactly right, but also not right.  In ego mode, I

RBCF 3000: sequence the events of my perception, but in ecstatic mode, it

RBCF 3000: is in eternity.

LunaticZen:       time keeps on slippin slippin...

Yogi Salguod:     it is an illusion appearing real

LunaticZen:       "what is found now is found then "  Kabir

RBCF 3000: ********** It is getting late, so let me roll out the rest of the

RBCF 3000: text for tonight, and then we can have free discussion about it,

RBCF 3000: ok?

TESLA21058:       and again

Yogi Salguod:     go on my friend

RBCF 3000: (continuing..........................)

LunaticZen:       ok RB

TESLA21058:       ok!

LucidDreamweaver:       Yes please do

LunaticZen:       < enjoyin chat

RBCF 3000: Every slightest act or utterance by this invoked deity is

RBCF 3000: exactly a miracle, and <its> Presence is Power -- it

RBCF 3000: changes the being of the people who come into <its>

RBCF 3000: orb, and it changes *facts*-- the elements and sequences

RBCF 3000: of a given reality.

RBCF 3000: In the course of this class we will examine ways in which

RBCF 3000: these miraculous events have been set up and

RBCF 3000: accomplished, and also how they have been perverted

RBCF 3000: into myths, religious establishments, cults, degradation

RBCF 3000: and often the exact opposite of what they were originally

RBCF 3000: intended to do.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: This is because the Miraculous does not and can not fit

RBCF 3000: into the mold of a society-- it is not something that the

RBCF 3000: priests of a society (including the priests of science) can

RBCF 3000: control or monopolize, it is not something that can be

RBCF 3000: defined in terms of anything that is "known," and it is not

RBCF 3000: even perceivable in the states of consciousness deemed

RBCF 3000: "normal" by the rules of a society.

LunaticZen:       < didnt understand this was a "class"  sorry for disruption 3000

Ddreamtime1:       yes  thats  what chat rooms are about  non?

LunaticZen:       but  excellent material

LunaticZen:       I enjoyed the eve

Yogi Salguod:     no comment

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: We know that we cannot observe gamma rays, radio

RBCF 3000: waves, neutrinos or quarks with the naked eye, nor with

RBCF 3000: any optical instrument; and yet, with the right kinds of

RBCF 3000: instruments, these events are not only reliably recorded,

RBCF 3000: but have become commonplace.

LunaticZen:       whoops    lol...

RBCF 3000: So it is with the events of ecstatic awareness-- if we

RBCF 3000: know where and how to look for it, we will see that the

RBCF 3000: proper instruments have been available to us for

RBCF 3000: thousands of years.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: The transmissions and methods I have been describing

RBCF 3000: may also form a *school* in which a chain of such

RBCF 3000: groups may form in different places, continuing from a

RBCF 3000: generation or two, to as much as 1,000 years.

RBCF 3000: The Essenes and the Gnostics are purported to be in

RBCF 3000: these lineages, and the schools of ancient Egypt and

RBCF 3000: Atlantis became the backbones of their societies, at least

RBCF 3000: until their leadership no longer could remain in direct

RBCF 3000: connection with their aetheric sources.

RBCF 3000: .

LunaticZen:       there were schools in atlantis?

RBCF 3000: As distorted as these ancient instruments and recordings

RBCF 3000: have become, I think it is astonishing how much usable

RBCF 3000: material has endured in them.

LunaticZen:       < slips out >

TESLA21058:       ageless and timeless

RBCF 3000: For example, it is commonly thought that many of these

RBCF 3000: are merely fortune-telling devices: Tarot, I-ching, the

RBCF 3000: Kabbalah, Ouija, runes, the enneagram, and so on. But

RBCF 3000: those who are equipped to *read* these instruments can

RBCF 3000: set up specific alchemic and supernatural experiments in

Ddreamtime1:      folows zen as always

RBCF 3000: themselves and their surroundings, ultimately leading to

RBCF 3000: encounters with Beings of the other layers and

RBCF 3000: dimensionalities.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Similarly, the various yogas and martial arts have

RBCF 3000: devolved to health and self-defense exercises for many

RBCF 3000: people, whereas they were originally given as methods of

RBCF 3000: storing Knowledge and Power in the several bodies of

RBCF 3000: which we are composed.

RBCF 3000: I hope you notice that, when I refer to Knowledge with a

RBCF 3000: capital-K, I am not speaking of the information-diarrhea

RBCF 3000: that our civilization has sunk into, but rather to a state of

RBCF 3000: connectedness, understanding of the place of everything,

RBCF 3000: and access to the positions of holistic memory within our

RBCF 3000: being.

RBCF 3000: It is also very common for us to collect these instruments of Power and Knowledge into museums, and relegate them to being cultural artifacts, "primitive art," or even just curiosities when, to a sorcerer or a man-of-knowledge, the objects belong to the location in which they were found, and could do immeasurable harm to ignorant and unprepared "scholars" and those with whom they come into contact.


RBCF 3000: I have yet to see a horror film which does not warn of these dangers, often quite accurately. But only very rarely do I see any portrayal of what may occur when magical objects or vortexes are encountered by people of advanced Knowledge and preparation.  Of these we will speak in later sessions of this course.

RBCF 3000: Finally we come to the religions. They are, by far, the

RBCF 3000: biggest irony, because they are recordings of actual

RBCF 3000: encounters with the supernatural, and of transmissions

RBCF 3000: received from those realms.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Furthermore, they have managed to pass along right up

RBCF 3000: to the present, although with absurd distortions of

RBCF 3000: significance, the procedures that they used for their

RBCF 3000: astounding achievements of opening the gateways and

RBCF 3000: encountering the primordial Intelligence behind everything

RBCF 3000: that seems to be occurring in "our world."

RBCF 3000: Now, however, the religions have almost entirely become

RBCF 3000: collections of empty formalities, even though many of

RBCF 3000: these formalities would work perfectly well for their

RBCF 3000: intended purpose if their significance were only

RBCF 3000: understood.

RBCF 3000: And then, there would be no sermons, because the

RBCF 3000: priests would be servants for maintaining the integrity of

RBCF 3000: the field, and every participant would receive the

RBCF 3000: transmission directly, in states of grace-- that is, ecstatic

RBCF 3000: awareness.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: It is also possible to to explain these types of events in

RBCF 3000: purely personal, internal terms. We don't have to believe

RBCF 3000: that there are strange other worlds populated with

RBCF 3000: incomprehensible beings who sometimes cross over into

RBCF 3000: "our" world; all of these descriptions are, after all, just

RBCF 3000: metaphorical approximations and silhouettes.


RBCF 3000: We could just as well say that the whole way we see the

RBCF 3000: world is one of many possible descriptions of a dream,

RBCF 3000: or a whole series of dreams going on all at once. The

RBCF 3000: nice thing about this paradigm is that it makes each of us

RBCF 3000: the God of our own dream-universe.

RBCF 3000: ******** Ok, that's all the reading I'll ask you to do tonight--

RBCF 3000: what are your thoughts or questions?

FlowrNtheWind:    my brain hurts......................lol

LucidDreamweaver:       That was a bit intense there 3000

FlowrNtheWind:    this is just alot to take in at once

JLook91968:       <~handing Flor a old compress

TESLA21058:       excellent chattage 3000...thanks so much for bringing this to the forground

LucidDreamweaver:       interesting but intense

Nierika:    I wish to know how others here have personally experienced any of these states of being...

Alisnntrnt:       i love it!! hehehe

Nierika:    and thank you for an information packed class :-)

James7289: RBCF 3000, would you consider emailing the lecture portion of this chat to us?

TESLA21058:       great idea James!

JLook91968:       yes!!

Dakopp2:    probabilities, each thought creates another....

TESLA21058:       this is a keeper

SnoLitNite:       have copied this to read over.......and over again. ;))

Yogi Salguod:     3000 not many understand what you are talking about

RBCF 3000: Yes, I will email the text to anyone who emails me for it.

Nierika:    :::clapping::: great class!

SnoLitNite:       good!

RBCF Arwen:       ::applause::

RBCF 3000: Yogi Salguod, that's why I've got this structured for 25 weeks

Yogi Salguod:     hehe

SnoLitNite:       :running to mail room::

RBCF 3000: ::::::::: bows humbly :::::::::

Alisnntrnt:       mail sent 

JLook91968:       would this be a begining of a definition if spirtiuality?

FlowrNtheWind:    this all just went way over my head

TESLA21058:       thank you 3000...a very enjoyable evening

TESLA21058:       and a lot to ponder

James7289: Yes indeed, Thanks

Nierika:    for some...JL...it might be the only definition

Alisnntrnt:       yes, thanks 3k

Dakopp2:    thank you

RBCF 3000: JLook, I worry about calling it spirituality, since that is so

RBCF 3000: personal and subjective, whereas these practices lead to

RBCF 3000: objective consciiousness.

RBCF Arwen:       As always....stupefying ;z0

SapphireSpirit:   lol

James7289: objective consciousness seems like a contradiction in terms

Nierika:    it does, James LOL

JLook91968:       true, but the brain has a tendency to catalogue

SnoLitNite:       is a great class....my request is in ;) thx 3000

RBCF 3000: James, I understand what you mean, but it helps to identify

RBCF 3000: where we are going with this.

Nierika:    Om shanti RBCF 3000 *

James7289: I agree.. I think I knew what you meant 3K

Log Count:  There were 22 member(s) in The New Age at 09:00 PM

RBCF 3000: I will stick around for a while and talk some more...

BelovedMuse:      Owlie too

LucidDreamweaver:       Yes please do 3000

Nierika:    have you ever noticed, Owl...how we often seem to be wearing the same color :-)

Dakopp2:    some Jung,perhaps?

RBCF 3000: Next week: survey of modern mystical teachings like 4th

RBCF 3000: way and don Juan.

Nierika:    RBCF...will you have any kind of a reminder email?

Nierika:    to folks like me who can't keep one though next to another for more than a minute

RBCF 3000: Nierika, are you getting my weekly newsletter?

Nierika:    oh...yes...it will be in there then...I knew I saw this somewhere

OWLSprit9: 3K......I would like the newsletter, please

RBCF 3000: OWLSprit, gotcha

RBCF 3000: **** What about arguments?  I can't believe nobody wants to

RBCF 3000: argue about these ideas

Jillzbeth: I embrace those ideas

Nierika:    I would like to discuss them, RBCF 3000, but argue...no not really

RBCF 3000: Nierika, ok, discuss is nice too

Nierika:    I would like to know who has experienced these states...and how...

JLook91968:       we just haven't gotten around to it. lol

Nierika:    who has experienced the symbolic death...

RBCF 3000: OWLSprit, hold on-- I'll mail you the text.......

Nierika:    who has experienced ecstacy...

Nierika:    who has used any means, technique, etc...for any of this and what they are...

Nierika:    etc.

Nierika:    :::sitting back to see if anyone has anything to share:::

JPulsipher:       I have jp

BelovedMuse:      lol Nierika. you first

OWLSprit9: ecstacy is a 'death'??   interesting  thought

JPulsipher:       why do you say that

Nierika:    well...I have experienced all of it...the symbolic death...the ecstacy...

Nierika:    I have used every and any means available...

Nierika:    who?

LucidDreamweaver:       Well I dare say I have too Nierika

BelovedMuse:      i could tell you some things, Nier, but ya wouldn't believe me..so i won't do it here..

Nierika:    I couldn't not hug you, Graz...of course :-)

Nierika:    I would totally believe you Beloved. :-)   and Lucid :-)

LucidDreamweaver:       what beloved said

Nierika:    Can you share how you experienced any of these...what was the "form" or the "metaphor"

Nierika:    {{{{{{{Blue}}}}}}} nice to see you again <g>

LucidDreamweaver:       Stuggle with inner good and evil was the format of mine

Blue woofs:       Nierika...it's good to be seen...hehe

Nierika:    :::thinking about a re-enactment of my symbolic death::: :-)

Blue woofs:       thanks...

Nierika:    ahh...mine was the symbolic ego death...dismemberment by Eagle

Nierika:    rather frightening and messy until I let go...

BelovedMuse:      its the letting go that is the key Nierika

Nierika:    yes...Beloved...isn't it though...and always the hardest thing to come by

Nierika:    until it isn't

Nierika:    :-)

GrazHoppr: ( is this still scheduled chat )

Nierika:    not that it's up to me to say so, of course

BelovedMuse:      (graz - Nier is pushing for rcbf)

Nierika:    No...please...anything but that

OWLSprit9: I'm gonna defer comments til I read 3K's text.....I will definitely share then.

Nierika:    They are here for any who wish to continue the discussion, I believe

Nierika:    :::in a tragic gesture:::

BELNCANDLE:       May the spirits that are and those that will be sit at the head of your bed and sing you

BELNCANDLE:       softly to sleep

Nierika:    that was lovely Bel...*

RBCF 3000: JeannieJ, oh, don't mind me, unless you'd like to discuss the

RBCF 3000: ideas I presented.

Dakopp2:    EGO,is the most physically oriented portion of the conscious inner self

Blue woofs:       I have one question concerning spirits...aren't they suppose to be off progressing as we

Blue woofs:       envision ourselfs?

RBCF 3000: Dakopp, if so, why does ego take us OUT of our bodies and our

RBCF 3000: feelings?

Sndynasty: Very well, Beloved

Nierika:    what about the bodhissatva, then, woofs...

Nierika:    or the idea that until all of us "get there," none of us do...

Blue woofs:       in other words...doesn't the action of them waiting at tunnels end seem nonproductive ?

GrazHoppr: me thinks it's impossible for "all of us" to get there, in one bunch

Dakopp2:    ego stays behind ,on astral traval

BelovedMuse:      <~thinks of Heaven's gate

Nierika:    not in a bunch...and in a bunch...time, after all, is an illusion

Nierika:    <~~now thinking of Bob Dylan ...knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's Door

RBCF 3000: Ok, I'm kinda tired anyhow-- feel free to write me if you have

Blue woofs:       I mean...if my dead dad is waiting on my death, isn't that holding him back for evolving?

RBCF 3000: any comments or questions. Thank you all for a lively

RBCF 3000: discussion! 

GrazHoppr: there were 7 at one time, like,,,,,,,,,,,,,why, lol