Ecstatic Awareness Class #9


PowerChat: *** Entered The New Age on 1/24/00 at 07:32 PM ***

DDreamtime: Hi 3000

OakAnchor: Are you going to tell fortunes now Jill?

HOST LFST Jill: Oak, We are your hosts for this forum. :) RBCF is

HOST LFST Jill: our former prefix, and all of us are shifting over to

HOST LFST Jill: LFST names

Zamurito: Hiya 3k

RBCF 3000: Good evening, dear friends

DDreamtime: hye Zamu

RBCF 3000: <-- hold-out or throw-back?

Freethinker39: hey......3000

HOST LFST Jill: :) 3k Is the instructor for this class... :) I"m just here

HOST LFST Jill: to help make folks feel welcome. :) Ask him the

HOST LFST Jill: hard questions.

RBCF 3000: Are you all ready to start a nice class?

RBCF 3000: ...............................................

RBCF 3000: Welcome, everyone. Tonight is our ninth class in Ecstatic

RBCF 3000: Awareness: "The connection between the

RBCF 3000: principles of modern physics and the mystery of

RBCF 3000: Existence." Once again, for those who are joining us for

RBCF 3000: the first time, the way we are using the word "ecstatic"

RBCF 3000: here means entering into states of consciousness,

RBCF 3000: accompanied by transformation of being, in which the

RBCF 3000: supernatural and the Miraculous can be witnessed and

RBCF 3000: experienced directly, even including the realms of

RBCF 3000: Divinity.

RBCF 3000: Continuing ............................

OakAnchor: then it cannot be a complete work of art then can it?

RBCF 3000: Before we begin tonight's lesson, we'd like you to share if

RBCF 3000: you are trying some of the exercises we've been

RBCF 3000: discussing. These include stopping the internal dialogue;

RBCF 3000: listening, tasting and feeling on deep levels; dream and

RBCF 3000: trance work; and consistent, silent meditation. Go right

RBCF 3000: ahead if you've been trying any of these ...

RBCF 3000: Ok, friends, let's begin tonight's class

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: I know it may sound a bit ambitious to try to correlate

RBCF 3000: physics with metaphysics, but I promise I won't get too

RBCF 3000: technical -- the math gives me headaches anyway. But I

RBCF 3000: think it's stupendous that modern physicists are having

RBCF 3000: to confront the mysteries of the universe, and gape in the

RBCF 3000: same awe and wonderment as a religious mystic or a

RBCF 3000: shaman. Maybe the difference is that mystics and

RBCF 3000: shamans know that they are going to meet the

RBCF 3000: Unexplainable, whereas a scientist is there to explain

RBCF 3000: things.

RBCF 3000: .

Freethinker39: i can hear colors on other levels of consciousness

RBCF 3000: Freethinker, have you had synaesthesia before? What are you practicing?

Freethinker39: this happens on the astral plane......3000

RBCF 3000: Freethinker, when? how?

Freethinker39: i tell myself to go to this area.......and i go

Freethinker39: colors have sound

RBCF 3000: So it just happens? I like to find out what allows us to do these things.

OakAnchor: Free you mean your fingers never moved on key pad?

Freethinker39: perhaps i should say i tell myself this before sleep

RBCF 3000: Anyone else experiencing unusual observations?

Freethinker39: i get lots of imformation on this level

Freethinker39: one of my favorite places to go

Zamurito: 3k, new level of energy now that y2k is over

Dolly Destiny1: is this about the rapture of being taken to higher realms where you meet others &visions?

RBCF 3000: Dolly Destiny, we are a very long way from rapture-- right now we

RBCF 3000: are just exploring the landscape a bit.

Dolly Destiny1: not everyone is at that stage but some are already there

RBCF 3000: Well, let's move forward on the class for a bit .............................................

RBCF 3000: The main books that I am using for the physics are "One-

RBCF 3000: Two-Three-Infinity" by George Gamow, "The Tao of

RBCF 3000: Physics" by Fritjof Capra, "A Brief History of Time" by

RBCF 3000: Stephen Hawking, "Star Wave" by Fred Alan Wolf, and

RBCF 3000: "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" whose author I can't recall

RBCF 3000: right now.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: For the metaphysics, some of my sources are "In Search

RBCF 3000: of the Miraculous" by P.D. Ouspensky, six of Carlos

RBCF 3000: Castaneda's books, works by Paul Brunton, D.T. Suzuki,

RBCF 3000: Aldous Huxley and some of the Tibetan authors. I also

RBCF 3000: recommend that science fiction writers Samuel Delany,

RBCF 3000: Robert Silverberg, Robert Heinlein and Isaac Asimov

RBCF 3000: (also great for non-fiction).

RBCF 3000: .

Log Count: There were 20 member(s) in The New Age at 07:45 PM

RBCF 3000: I like to begin and end with Consciousness, at the cross-

RBCF 3000: hairs of a set of dimensions (maybe eleven, maybe 13 of

RBCF 3000: them), which exists simultaneously at both the beginning

RBCF 3000: and the end of the universe (alpha & omega) in the very

RBCF 3000: same moment, and yet which is augmented from the

RBCF 3000: momentary flicker which was the entire history of our

RBCF 3000: universe, and perhaps a billion others as well.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Consciousness "begins" with no expansions, and therefore

RBCF 3000: does not know <itself>, so it "has" expanded within the

RBCF 3000: dimensions which <it> enfolds, and in which it sees

RBCF 3000: through your eyes, hears with my ears, touches with her

RBCF 3000: heart, builds, destroys, displays courage, loyalty,

RBCF 3000: treachery, cruelty, love and all the multitudinous

RBCF 3000: interactions of Life, all completed in an instant.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Now here Consciousness still is, in <its> own

RBCF 3000: dimensionality at the very same moment of existence.

RBCF 3000: An instantaneous impulse of *life-bearing planet*, and

RBCF 3000: the Earth is/was, with all its uncontainable orgasm of

RBCF 3000: procreation/ death/ rebirth/ mutation. A flicker of a

RBCF 3000: notion, and creatures beyond imagination have eyes and

RBCF 3000: wings and brains and desperate urges to procreate, to

RBCF 3000: survive and thrive, to savor existence for the briefest of

RBCF 3000: moments. And then only the one moment of eternity...

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: ******** These are some of the visions of Consciousness

RBCF 3000: that I intend to augment with ideas from science. Let's

RBCF 3000: hear from you now-- what ideas about consciousness or

RBCF 3000: existence would you like to have affirmed, demonstrated

RBCF 3000: or proved? Go right ahead now-- open floor...

OakAnchor: 3000 are you implying to this group that in reading such materials it makes you think more

OakAnchor: or are more divine now?

RBCF 3000: OakAnchor, I'm not sure what your question was ...?

OakAnchor: Can you say what it is in a sentence maybe for us less advanced?

Temshaa: 3000 perhaps a sum-up??

RBCF 3000: Temshaa, what I wish to demonstrate tonight, is that science is

RBCF 3000: beginning to catch up with thousands of years of mystical

RBCF 3000: experience.

Zamurito: 3k, Like how to determine what awareness is as compared to attention?

RBCF 3000: Zamurito, maybe-- we'll be going into fine points like that in later classes though.

Zamurito: Then stuck with this sucker

Dolly Destiny1: what you wrote is correct so far...I know this, been there, done that & time to move on.

Temshaa: I will agree with about time 3000

Love is as us: ...there is one conciousness...God-...we are an aspect of it...

Temshaa: god?

RBCF 3000: Zamurito, I think it really does help to see that we are not just

RBCF 3000: having our experiences "in a vacuum" as it were, but that the

RBCF 3000: mystery is leaking out to where science can trip over it

RBCF 3000: Love is as us, I try to talk about everything without mentioning

RBCF 3000: God, so we don't get caught up in theological debates.

Pleiadian1: the university of Arizona is conducting experiments of communicating with those on the other side

Tipherath: Elizabeth McILvain

Freethinker39: the earth's magnetic field does have mathematical consciousness

Zamurito: 3k, have not seen it in the science world yet...

Awakened Spirit: 3K> Yet all your debates are with self are they not?

RBCF 3000: Awakened Spirit, I suppose it all comes down to that for each of us, doesn't it?

DDreamtime: I like that too 3000 in my grad classes we talked of Steven Hawking etc

Awakened Spirit: How we label them is are error

OakAnchor: That would tend to make for less static Awakened wouldn't it.

Freethinker39: consciousness is electromagnetic

RBCF 3000: DDreamtime, what program are you in?

FlowerJJN: perhaps the real secret ... is that science surpassed the mystical many milenniums ago ...

RBCF 3000: OakAnchor, how so?

FlowerJJN: and now the mystical is pulling back in ..

DDreamtime: i finished it is in Rehabilitation counseling and drug alcohol studies

Awakened Spirit: Science seeks to explain what is ... a losing game

RBCF 3000: Awakened Spirit, right-- it has to ultimately be done "mindlessly",

RBCF 3000: yet *mindfully*, right?

Awakened Spirit: 3K> Science creates the ruler to measure .. yet what it

Awakened Spirit: measures it is...without even knowing what is

Awakened Spirit: is a game of HIDE & SEEK

Freethinker39: consciousness has no limits as to how many levels can be experienced

RBCF 3000: Awakened Spirit, right-- the very measurement changes what is measured.

Awakened Spirit: 3K. yes...for the measure is not just the object, ..but the observer

DDreamtime: yes our proof is limited by the ability of our measuring devices

Dolly Destiny1: how can science measure our consciousness while we experience rapture and visions?

RBCF 3000: Freethinker, or if there are limits, we are a long way from knowing them, right?

Awakened Spirit: 3K. As Wayne dyer would say " You will se it when you

Awakened Spirit: believe it" do not see it then believe

Radiant Hope: In the end we will still grapple with infinity . . . and that which is simply beyond all

Radiant Hope: measuring ~

Freethinker39: we cannot measure the non physical with the physical

Dolly Destiny1: correct

FlowerJJN: perhaps Awakened .. it is like the Emperors New Clothes

RBCF 3000: Awakened Spirit, I've actually already seen a lot that I never would have imagined!

Awakened Spirit: Flower. Nightpath here in emperors cloths..hahhaa

FlowerJJN: :):):) Awakened

Log Count: There were 24 member(s) in The New Age at 08:00 PM

DDreamtime: LOL Awakened

Awakened Spirit: 3K> Yes...but you first accepted the possibility?

RBCF 3000: Awakened Spirit, I just had to be very open and quiet.

RBCF 3000: All right, friends-- let's look at what the science of the

RBCF 3000: past century brings to the table, that might help us

RBCF 3000: understand the exquisite mystery of our existence --

RBCF 3000: please hold comments for a minute or two, till I open the

RBCF 3000: floor up again. Thanks

RBCF 3000: ................................................................

RBCF 3000: One of my favorite ideas about time is that it seems to

RBCF 3000: stretch and slow down as an object approaches the speed

RBCF 3000: of light. But that is only an appearance from some

RBCF 3000: external point of view. For an object actually travelling at

RBCF 3000: light-speed, like a photon (and I can't think of anything

RBCF 3000: else right now that keeps existing at the speed of light),

RBCF 3000: its subjective experience has to be that **no time is

RBCF 3000: elapsing at all**!

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: This would imply the preposterous notion that, for a

RBCF 3000: photon which was emanated at the very beginning of the

RBCF 3000: universe (12-15 billion years ago from *our* perspective,

RBCF 3000: supposedly), it is *still* the very same moment at which

RBCF 3000: it "was" emanated originally!

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: An idea that goes right along with that is that the

RBCF 3000: universe expands from every point within it

RBCF 3000: simultaneously, so that this very place where I am "now"

RBCF 3000: sitting is the very origin of the whole universe. How

RBCF 3000: could that possibly be? We "know" that the universe

RBCF 3000: "began" billions of years ago-- how could it now be

RBCF 3000: originating right under me, as if for the very first time?

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: The best explanation for this that I've been able to pick

RBCF 3000: out, is that some events must be happening in different

RBCF 3000: dimensionalities from other events. All those billions of

RBCF 3000: years and light-years would have to be an observational

RBCF 3000: artifice along the axis of some side-dimension(s), and all

RBCF 3000: these photons are happily sitting here at the very same

RBCF 3000: moment that they were created.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Now we plug in the issue that, mathematically, all

RBCF 3000: particles which have identical attributes are technically

RBCF 3000: one and the same identical particle, and we find that we

RBCF 3000: have one single Photon in the whole universe, and one

RBCF 3000: single electron, etc., and now what do we have? We have

RBCF 3000: the very beginning of the whole universe right here and

RBCF 3000: now, with an electron, a photon, a proton and some

RBCF 3000: quarks and so on-- one of each.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: But science is now showing that the attributes by which

RBCF 3000: we can distinguish one particle from another are the most

RBCF 3000: tenuous vapor: all that appears to us as mass, electric

RBCF 3000: charge, gravity, strength, hardness, and all the other

RBCF 3000: "irrefutible" properties of "real matter" turn out to be

RBCF 3000: nothing but the dance of "emanations", and the elements

RBCF 3000: of this dance physics calls "spin", "charm", "upness" and

RBCF 3000: "strangeness."

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: It may not even be right to call these emanations

RBCF 3000: "particles" because there is absolutely nothing "inside" of

RBCF 3000: them. They are fields emanating from let us say, some

RBCF 3000: core impulse of intent, although that doesn't really

RBCF 3000: describe anything, does it? But all we can find is a field

RBCF 3000: that has a spin of -1.5, an upness of "down", a

RBCF 3000: strangeness of this, a charm of that.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Not only that, but it accommodates whatever property of

RBCF 3000: it you are looking for-- if you think it's a particle, it will

RBCF 3000: behave like particles and pile up on top of each other; if

RBCF 3000: you think it's a wave, it will happily form diffraction grids,

RBCF 3000: even with only one photon or electron at a time. If it

RBCF 3000: splits in two, then no matter how far apart they are, even

RBCF 3000: light-years, a change made to one of the components

RBCF 3000: instantaneously effects a corresponding change in the

RBCF 3000: other.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: In this dance of existence of this "particle, it starts out as,

RBCF 3000: say, a proton, but then transfroms into three of some

RBCF 3000: other particles, to six of something else with 10,000

RBCF 3000: times the mass of the original particle that they

RBCF 3000: interchange with, and then right back to the original

RBCF 3000: particle. And these transformations are not especially

RBCF 3000: careful to always go forward in time!

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: One more property that I like very much in quantum

RBCF 3000: physics is that, if you have a box and you empty it of all

RBCF 3000: but one atom, that one atom "expands" to fill the entire

RBCF 3000: box. In our next segment we will look at how this

RBCF 3000: property, and the others I've mentioned, helps to explain

RBCF 3000: the experience of consciousness.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: ******* Am I mis-stating the observations of modern

RBCF 3000: physics, or their implications? How does any of this make

RBCF 3000: sense? Go right ahead-- open floor now ......

Radiant Hope: <-----has charm and upness.....occassionally spins and am strange... ; )

Awakened Spirit: You had to be very open and quiet...that which requires

Awakened Spirit: but an illusion of time...who you are has no

Awakened Spirit: measure...or effect...your ego is a gift..but it is not a tool

Awakened Spirit: for self judgement...the one you are without begin or

Awakened Spirit: end...can that one talk NOW???

Dolly Destiny1: correct=no time is elapsing at all.

DCizunas: Makes perfect sense...we don't even know how many worlds exist in the unused space of the...

DCizunas: ...atoms we DO use

Temshaa: I got the no time happening part..

FlowerJJN: could you synopsis your intention :):) 3000

D1hoognoz: 3K, a lot of interesting ideas. I am not a physicist but I am familiar with most of what you

D1hoognoz: have written.

Temshaa: I think he did Flower lol

Radiant Hope: Jane Roberts' work on the time dimensions helps to demystify that aspect......

Dolly Destiny1: don't forget the unseen realm-- a lot of energy is located there...aliveness all around us

D1hoognoz: The photon only seems to not be moving forward in time from OUR frame of reference.

D1hoognoz: From the photons frame time moves normally.

RBCF 3000: D1hoognoz, exactly (or approximately enough

D1hoognoz: What would happen if you are driving your spaceship at the speed of light and turn on the headlights?

RBCF 3000: Radiant Hope, how can it be demystified? The Mystery remains

RBCF 3000: beyond ordinary words, doesn't it?

Dolly Destiny1: correct the proton or unseen realms time moves normally but we see it different=sometimes

Tipherath: D1...right

RBCF 3000: Dolly Destiny, I don't know HOW any of it moves, but I'm sure it's not "normally"

Radiant Hope: have just invalidated your entire microscopic representation of mystical,

Radiant Hope: experience-based reality.

Zamurito: Why Radiant?

Grazhopprr: heh heh, mystical experience is relative, completely subjective

RBCF 3000: Radiant Hope, yes, why? How?

Freethinker39: what's normal, 3000?

Radiant Hope: experience is my only reality.

Love is as us: ...deeeeeeeep........but mysticism is an inner realization for God's presence....

Grazhopprr: hope, yup

Grazhopprr: i call that the mona lisa syndrome

RBCF 3000: Freethinker, meaning, something that we have categories and

RBCF 3000: labels for, something "reasonable", yes?

Dolly Destiny1: its normal 3000, for that energy and sometimes we merge and touch each other in the rapture

Radiant Hope: <smiles>

Radiant Hope: I call it wisdom.

RBCF 3000: Radiant Hope, but is it your only *possible* reality??

Radiant Hope: 3000.......that is only known in the unfolding of my life and my experiences.

Grazhopprr: ask 10 different people why the mona lisa is smiling, 10 different answers

Radiant Hope: No matter the common books we read......we will respond to the printed words differently.

D1hoognoz: All observation depends on the frame of reference of the observer.

FlowerJJN: living in the now ... or living an illusion ...

Radiant Hope: Yes D1

RBCF 3000: Dolly Destiny, it sounds like "rapture" corresponds to the quantum wave function.

Dolly Destiny1: maybe 3000

Soul blu: I'm not sure I'd say all obersavation D1

D1hoognoz: The observer is of course you. Without you there is no universe.

D1hoognoz: Therefore YOU are the universe.

Dolly Destiny1: 3000 there was a wav first and i saw it

RBCF 3000: Radiant Hope, right. The books I mentioned earlier-- I've read

RBCF 3000: each of them at least six times.

RBCF 3000: D1hoognoz, that is my very point here.

Radiant Hope: <smiles>

RBCF 3000: Grazhopprr, I am surrounded by my library!

NightPath: 3K> To read a book ..50 times..means ??

NightPath: every book is re-written by the reader

BelovedMuse: thats deep Night :)

RBCF 3000: NightPath, the point was that each time I read them, I get

RBCF 3000: something different out of them.

Grazhopprr: well, reading books once is enuf for me, but i'm a gemini, go figure, lol

FlowerJJN: isn't that the same with all life ... 3000

RBCF 3000: Grazhopprr, I am too, but I am different each time I read them.

D1hoognoz: Soul blu, if you don't make the observation yourself you accept the validity of someone

D1hoognoz: else's observation.

Log Count: There were 20 member(s) in The New Age at 08:15 PM

BelovedMuse: that was a compliment, Hopey

D1hoognoz: That makes it the same as if you did it yourself. therefore it is all observations.

RBCF 3000: Ok, friends, I am going to wrap up the class part of this session so

RBCF 3000: we can finish in free discussion ........................

RBCF 3000: In continuing now with our class, let us speculate on how

RBCF 3000: these observations from science could illuminate the

RBCF 3000: search of Consciousness for <itself> -- please hold

RBCF 3000: comments for a minute or two, till I open the floor up

RBCF 3000: again. Thanks ................................................................

RBCF 3000: So now let us picture a "universe" of 15 billion years,

RBCF 3000: filled with power and wonder and passionate life and

RBCF 3000: irresistable forces, but whose whole existance is an

RBCF 3000: instantaneous flicker of a dream. Its breadth embraces

RBCF 3000: seas of galaxies, and even oceans of clusters of galaxies,

RBCF 3000: but whose whole measure is less than a pinpoint.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Imagine a past disappearing into the mists of antiquity--

RBCF 3000: ages of molten lava, ages of ice, the rise and fall of

RBCF 3000: dynosaurs, the advent of mankind. Histories engraved in

RBCF 3000: stone and enscribed on papyrus; civilizations buried

RBCF 3000: under sands and seas. Ancient cities like Jerusalem built

RBCF 3000: on previous, even more ancient cities, five or six deep!

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Now open your eyes and realize that all of that was but

RBCF 3000: the briefest flicker of a dream. Is it that it never even

RBCF 3000: happened, or could it all be happening at once? This is

RBCF 3000: exactly the position that modern physics (both quantum

RBCF 3000: and relativistic) finds itself in.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: And it is exactly the position that a mystical priest finds

RBCF 3000: him or herself in after prolonged and penetrating self-

RBCF 3000: study, which turns out also to be the study of the

RBCF 3000: universe. Then is the whole universe internal? Is the

RBCF 3000: universe inside "me" the same one as inside "you"?

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: How could there be only an "inside" with no outside? This

RBCF 3000: is just the limitation of words, because properly there is

RBCF 3000: no "inside" either. That's why I prefer to call Existence a

RBCF 3000: "self-reflexive hologram in fifteen dimensions." There,

RBCF 3000: doesn't that make it clearer?

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: I'd like to close on a paradox common to modern physics

RBCF 3000: and mysticism. Do you know what entropy means?

RBCF 3000: Basically, it just means that water runs downhill and

RBCF 3000: everything comes to as much rest as it can, in the

RBCF 3000: forward direction of time.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: But that is counter to evolution, which seems to say that

RBCF 3000: "water runs UPhill"! The paradox is that increasing

RBCF 3000: order is the result both of everything coming to rest and

RBCF 3000: ALSO the intervention of consciousness. But it takes

RBCF 3000: intervention in order to make observations and gain

RBCF 3000: information, which produces DISorder.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: So I will leave you here with my own solution to this

RBCF 3000: paradox: the defeat of entropy is enacted by the

RBCF 3000: intervention of intent in reverse order of time; that is,

RBCF 3000: everything is solved by reversing the film and running

RBCF 3000: everything backwards to inception. In future classes, we

RBCF 3000: will tackle how this could be done.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: ****** Well, friends, those are the ideas that I'd like you

RBCF 3000: to think about for yourselves. Now let's hear your

RBCF 3000: questions and comments.

OakAnchor: a mystical priest 3000 , could you explain what exactly that would be?

NightPath: 3K> you seem to be seeing a physical

NightPath: appearance...when it is only a measure of

NightPath: focus/attention...a means to see one thing at a

NightPath: time..hahahha....what do you seek????

RBCF 3000: NightPath, oh no -- I am pretty much in agreement with your position.

D1hoognoz: 3K, I think in a way the universe is internal and that there is really no difference between

NightPath: 3K> As i am with quewstion is..what is

NightPath: it///you seek?

D1hoognoz: YOU and ME.

Dolly Destiny1: correct "self-reflexive hologram in fifteen dimensioms"...maybe more dimensions like 21+

RBCF 3000: D1hoognoz, right, except for being at different perspectives within the hologram, no?

RBCF 3000: Dolly Destiny, I made up the number 15 -- physics thinks it can

RBCF 3000: explain everything in eleven dimensions, but they don't know

RBCF 3000: what they are looking for, IMHO.

Grazhopprr: 3k, and you do?

NightPath: What came first number 1 or Zero

D1hoognoz: As to your paradox, the opposite of entropy is putting energy INTO a system. I don't see how

D1hoognoz: evolution is putting energy into a system.

Dolly Destiny1: I arrived at 15 also from something I experienced but that is just the tip of it all I think

NightPath: evolution is an illsion of time

RBCF 3000: Grazhopprr, don't you? I think all of us who have been searching

RBCF 3000: for universal order have some idea, even if we can't express it.

RBCF 3000: NightPath, that's like saying that a hen is an eggs way of making more eggs, right?

Dolly Destiny1: energy INTO a system=into human energy

D1hoognoz: Night, zero is not a number, it is an idea.

Grazhopprr: 3k, i gave up searching for something that is already here long ago, have fun, heh

NightPath: Current man claims evolution..yet has been

NightPath: unalble to show the evolution of any animal

RBCF 3000: D1hoognoz, putting energy INTO a system causes entropy also,

RBCF 3000: because higher energies cause more randomness.

NightPath: 3K> Nope..perfection is not a

NightPath: result/ is what we are

Radiant Hope: Y'all are takin' energy OUT of my system.......LOL

D1hoognoz: 3K, are you saying entropy is randomness?

Freethinker39: so true .....night

NightPath: Does the Sun try to rise each day?

RBCF 3000: NightPath, is one's personality perfect, with all its vanity and pain?

RBCF 3000: D1hoognoz, that is one way to define it, yes.

Selph2000: Night..i feel the energy of the T-rex is now expressing as a hummingbird

LSzipzap: What is the topic?

NightPath: 3K> a born be

NightPath: perfectly imperfect is it not?

Dolly Destiny1: it sems the mind/spirit of man evolves on different levels of experience, solotary journey

Radiant Hope: We are perfect ioh dear LS

RBCF 3000: D1hoognoz, wouldn't you say that evolution is more ordered?

Radiant Hope: LOLOL......what a weird line I wrote.......!!!!!!

D1hoognoz: 3K I thought entropy was a systems tendency to seek the lowest energy level unless energy ia

Grazhopprr: funny how people who search for something only validate the need to keep searching

Tipherath: D1, it is, and organization is negative entropy

LSzipzap: 3K -- Ah, one of my favorite topics.

Radiant Hope: 3000......when is it that we give mysticism its due? hmmmmm????

Tipherath: evolution requires organization...

LSzipzap: Mysticism is still trying to lead physics to some understanding...

LSzipzap: And doing better lately.

RBCF 3000: D1hoognoz, right, that is the usual definition, which I subscribe

RBCF 3000: to, but isn't evolution against entropy?

OakAnchor: It could be some impulse that's called nature producing protrusions into atmospheric density

FlowrNtheWind: what is entropy?

Radiant Hope: Yes LS.....but when we dissect the mystical and deny the inherent mysticality of events...

DCizunas: I found it easier to embrace mysticism after having my world torn apart and rebuilt by...

NightPath: Flower> Its a bowling trophy from the city of en

DCizunas: mathematics and science

RBCF 3000: Radiant Hope, we have 17 more classes to go in this series, and I

RBCF 3000: am already choking everybody with too much at a time, no?

LSzipzap: Radiant... ?? Didn't understand.

Radiant Hope: I'm an old soul, perhaps. I have no need to dissect the mysteries. Math and Science prove

Radiant Hope: them, as Einstein predicted they would.

LSzipzap: One of recent books on mysticism and physics -- Spiritual Universe by Wolf is pretty good.

Log Count: There were 22 member(s) in The New Age at 08:30 PM

RBCF 3000: OakAnchor, that sounds like a fine way to describe it

NightPath: Flowr> Well i figure a guess is better then no

NightPath: answer..and hey..just my way of saying ..somebody

NightPath: is listening

LSzipzap: What's an Old Soul? All souls are immortal.. eternal.

FlowrNtheWind: <~~ doesnt think science can explain away everything

Radiant Hope: Flowr.......I don't think it explains anything AWAY........

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, sure, but it's a way of saying how a particular soul is

RBCF 3000: viewing its experience at a given time, or in a given lifetime, see?

LSzipzap: Flowr... only people using science can explain. And then they have to be smarter than most

LSzipzap: current scientists.

FlowrNtheWind: Hope, I really don't either but some people believe if science cant prove it then it's not real

NightPath: "All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same

NightPath: tree. All these aspirations are directed

NightPath: toward enobling man's life, lifting it from the sphere of

NightPath: mere physical existence and leading the

D1hoognoz: 3K, evolution doesn't require energy to be put into a system.

NightPath: individual towards freedom."--Albert Einstein

Radiant Hope: Oh boy........that's the fourth time someone has talked about the "superiority" or "smarter-

Radiant Hope: ness".......of someone.........sheeeeeshhhh.......

LSzipzap: 3K -- How can that be? If a soul is immortal, how can it be young or old?

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, one can *act* infantile, young, mature or old, with seven substages in each.

LSzipzap: Radiant... not stuck. Just wonder when people talk about old souls what they could mean.

D1hoognoz: Also if you agree that the universe is us there is no randomness. We create with full intent

FlowrNtheWind: Wasn't Einstien voted man of the millineum?

Radiant Hope: good LS.......glad to know yer not stuck. ; )

NightPath: Flower. yes

FlowrNtheWind: I am still figuring out how tospell that word

Selph2000: Flowr..if not..should have been

Grazhopprr: millenium

Tipherath: LS...if a thing were "eternal", it would have no beginning

Tipherath: and no end...everything that exists has a

Tipherath: beginning...therefore...etc.

RBCF 3000: FlowrNtheWind, I thought it was just "Man of the Century"

D1hoognoz: We can't explain how we open our hand but we do it. In the same way we don't know how we

NightPath: All units Code 4.....211 in progress....officer needs assitance!!

FlowrNtheWind: sheesh, someday i will be able to spell such a big word

LSzipzap: 3K -- But "acting" as such is only confusion... not true understanding of soul.

D1hoognoz: shine the Sun but we do.

FlowrNtheWind: 3K, could be

LSzipzap: Tip -- That's right. A soul has no beginning and end. It is not "of time."

FlowrNtheWind: {{{{JLook}}}}}}}

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, not really *acting*-- but we take different aspects for

RBCF 3000: dharma, for our life path each time, is how I've heard it.

Radiant Hope: <------an old soul

Tipherath: LS...I think you missed my point...

LSzipzap: 3K -- Yeah. I just wonder if such doesn't cause confusion...

FlowrNtheWind: Night, what is dharma?

LSzipzap: Tip -- Maybe. ??

Grazhopprr: individual personalities had a beginning, the spirit is a branch from the original tree

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, what might cause some confusion is my position that

RBCF 3000: there is really only one single soul in the entire universe-- it is

RBCF 3000: you and it is me and it is neither!

NightPath: Flowr> i did not use that is a limit in

NightPath: perception

Radiant Hope: hmmmm........triple speak

LSzipzap: 3K -- AH. I disagree wholeheartedly. The one soul I believe is a confusion.

D1hoognoz: I hear ya 3K.

FlowrNtheWind: Night, but do you know what it means?

LSzipzap: That confusion seems to be quite prevalent...

Tipherath: agree, 3K

DCizunas: The "oversoul" would not expand consciousness without the experiences we all have (all things included in the we)

Radiant Hope: We are the Source and the Source is us.

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, it is not intended to be taken as a "fact", but as a way of

RBCF 3000: looking at existence holographically.

Selph2000: Flowr..its similar to life purpose

LSzipzap: There are individual spirits before this universe... they come together to hold a common viewpoint -- thus the "one" confusion.

Grazhopprr: the one soul is like g.t.e., with millions of phone numbers within it

RBCF 3000: DCizunas, that is my very point-- good way to put it.

FlowrNtheWind: Selph, thank you

NightPath: Flowr. yes....

DCizunas: 3K thanks... : D

LSzipzap: The "one" is a mechanism of spirits coming together to create a common universe/

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, I find that too-- I claim there is only one Soul, and then

RBCF 3000: I meet up with all these Spirits...

LSzipzap: But it is not a prime state.

NightPath: great...the clowns are back

OakAnchor: Let me ask a practical user friendly question 3k, how does this all correspond to shopping?

OakAnchor: Do you take this thought with you there?

OakAnchor: Do you leave it at home?

OakAnchor: what do you use it for?

LSzipzap: 3K -- Yes. The confusion has to do with the mechanism that multiple spirits use to create a

LSzipzap: common universe

Radiant Hope: have to rivals speaking about the weather all the time.

D1hoognoz: Oak, these thoughts help one understand WHO is doing the shopping!

RBCF 3000: OakAnchor, can you restate your question differently?

DCizunas: Oak, maybe it points to the fact that we should treat others as we would want to be treated

LSzipzap: 3K -- It is as if all the individual spirits have "quantum" universes which collide to

DCizunas: when we are out shopping : )

LSzipzap: become the one classical universe.

Radiant Hope: It does, does do that!

FlowrNtheWind: Tip, the bad man he takes all money tells me I need things I really dont

OakAnchor: 3k , Ok using the above train of thought or mind set , how do you relate this sacred knowledge to daily life simplistics?

LSzipzap: 3K -- An ongoing "collapse" of the quantum into the classical.

Radiant Hope: LOL So's ok...come over and sit by me if you'd like.

Freethinker39: wow......i forgot i was in the

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, that is the way the idea of quantum wave function

RBCF 3000: would put it-- so I guess you might be correct.

So so Rus: for that much i dont get the topic either

Tipherath: Free...another quantum leap?

LSzipzap: 3K -- Unfortunately, the quantum boys are still too close to the materialistic reduction boys.

RBCF 3000: OakAnchor, like "chop wood, carry water"? I meet every person

RBCF 3000: as a mirror, every experience as a miracle.

FlowrNtheWind: Free honey you will be ok. are you getting senile? this isnt the first time this week you ha

FlowrNtheWind: have forgotten you were in here

LSzipzap: The quantum boys, with the exception of Wolf and Goswami, and a few others...

GorillaNtheMist: what happened to freethinker 40? going backwards?

OakAnchor: If I wanted to be lost or found I would take a copy of stephen hawkins in stores and read it

LSzipzap: still believe consciousness comes from matter...

OakAnchor: chop wood carry water , glass half full half empty , hole in bucket 3k

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, but according to *observations*, matter cannot even

RBCF 3000: be defined until observed, right?

Tipherath: LS...and matter is energy, go figure...

Freethinker39: consciousness creates matter not the other way around

D1hoognoz: LSzip, where does matter come from?

RBCF 3000: ::::::: applauds Oak with one hand clapping ::::::::::

Grazhopprr: got your installed microwave oven, custom kitchen delivery

GorillaNtheMist: matter does not really exist as we call it

Radiant Hope: Wow Tiph......are you sure you're not my friend......??? <warm smiles>

NightPath: See was a black haired beauty with points of her own..way

NightPath: up firm and high...working on mysteries..without any

NightPath: clues...working on the night moves...I awoke last night to

NightPath: the sound of thunder..I wonder how far off...strang how the

NightPath: night moves with autumn moving in...night moves...night

NightPath: moves..I remember...

LSzipzap: 3K -- Yes. Yes. Consciousness does create matter. But that is still foreign, even to the

Freethinker39: its all an illusion

LSzipzap: quantum thinkers.

GorillaNtheMist: real just not as we think

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, sure. I am not saying that they understand what they

RBCF 3000: are observing, just that their observations can be understood

RBCF 3000: mystically.

Tipherath: 3K...agree

LSzipzap: 3K -- Absolutely. And it is interesting to see how many of the famous quantum physicists

DCizunas: Did everyone hear about the mystic and the astronomer??

Freethinker39: to see the non physical you most look with the inner eye ,,,,,so to speak

Grazhopprr: that ain't workin, that's the way you do it

LSzipzap: have a background in Eastern religion... Shroedinger, Bohm, Pauli, etc.

Log Count: There were 29 member(s) in The New Age at 08:45 PM

Tipherath: (Flowr...still is)

OakAnchor: To understand something is one thing to know you understood it at one time is another ,

OakAnchor: but if we are infinite beings we already know all this and if you recall it thats ok.

So so Rus: may i ask what is modren psysics?

RBCF 3000: So so Rus, it's all the ideas of relativity and quantum mechanics--

RBCF 3000: that is, non-Newtonian, therefore non-reasonable.

FlowrNtheWind: Gorilla, I was just making sure it was a ? and not a statement

RBCF 3000: ... and non-local.

FlowrNtheWind: Gorilla, but as for as would a change it, nah I wouldnt go back

LSzipzap: 3K -- Non-reasonable. Hmmm?

Tipherath: LS...interesting way of putting it, no?

LSzipzap: Seems reasonable to me. <g>

Grazhopprr: can you take me back where i came from, can you take me back

So so Rus: is it some what like relating the tonal with the nagual 3K?

RBCF 3000: LSzipzap, Newtonian physics works great within certain sizes,

RBCF 3000: distances, masses and velocities, but breaks down outside of that

RBCF 3000: "island"

FlowrNtheWind: who is to say I would be here now?

RBCF 3000: ... There was a time when Aristotle's notions explained enough.

GorillaNtheMist: I guess we said the same thing

OakAnchor: It is better no to approach such things with the mind for you can never return back Grazhppr

LSzipzap: 3K -- Yes, I'm very up on that. Was just toying with the word choice.

Selph2000: free..thats some reality..but it is possible to go back

OakAnchor: Do you ever wonder why it is you buy a book for instance , and only read cover or 1 -3 pages

LSzipzap: There was a time when Plato was hip to spirit being external to body.

OakAnchor: its because you have already acquired all you needed from it

DDreamtime: Night how did you know i wad doing my hair ????

OakAnchor: its not lazy

LSzipzap: 3K -- The current study of consciousness is getting interesting with the neuro/bio boys

LSzipzap: trying to hook the physicists into their bio only model.

LSzipzap: But the model doesn't work...

RBCF 3000: (Next week: What kind of Being are we? Is it possible we've

RBCF 3000: been missing most of it? Please continue whatever daily

RBCF 3000: practices you are doing-- we'll be using everything that

RBCF 3000: results from them.)

LSzipzap: And women.

DDreamtime: <-- moving back to consciousness

NightPath: Stop talking...Stop thinking...and there is nothing you will not understand.

LSzipzap: The "boys" was a perjorative, but we can include the ladies if they want.

RBCF 3000: (All the previous 8 logues are downloadable from

RBCF 3000: keyword "New Age", Library II, if you missed any of the

RBCF 3000: previous classes, and tonight's logue (#9) will be available

RBCF 3000: within the next week. Thank you all for participating with

RBCF 3000: us today.

Radiant Hope: LS......matters not..........both genders are involved in all it or not.

Freethinker39: thanks.......3000

Radiant Hope: perjorative or otherwise......

OakAnchor: and master teacher turns to pupil with sigh and says "try to stop your mind just go ahead"

Alisnntrnt: thanks 3k...enjoyed this one

Tipherath: You're doin' good, 3000...

DCizunas: Thank you again for a most thought provoking topic : D

Freethinker39: i like it

RBCF 3000: Alisnntrnt, I'm glad-- didn't hear much from you...

Serendipitous12: thanxs rbcf 3000 will down laod missed the whole thing

DDreamtime: thanks 3000 I hate i missed the middle bit

Serendipitous12: just got here

Alisnntrnt: i'm a listener 3k, as you know

DCizunas: Good night all, catch ya later

Radiant Hope: 3000.....promise me yer gonna get to the mystical......right?

Tasticow7: this was interesting i'm out of my league but i enjoyed it

Grazhopprr: dd, that middle bit will get ya every time

RBCF 3000: Tipherath, we've got some wonderful doorways to go thru in the coming weeks.

Alisnntrnt: i like to digest these things slowly

NightPath: DD> Roll over..will show you what you missed

Tipherath: 3000...sounds good...

RBCF 3000: Radiant Hope, I did promise you-- would you like to see the syllabus?

Freethinker39: I LIKE DOOR WAYS.......3000

HOST LFST Jill: 3K, have you sent them a synopsis of all the topics you'll be covering?

Radiant Hope: 3000........actually, I would.

DDreamtime: night think so ?

RBCF 3000: Freethinker, are you getting my newsletter by that name?

Freethinker39: no

RBCF 3000: HOST LFST Jill, not entirely-- I have the next few in the newsletter.

RBCF 3000: ******** Anybody who would like the syllabus of the whole 25-

RBCF 3000: week class, or the newsletter and schedule, please email me and

RBCF 3000: you shall have it

HOST LFST Jill: :) I'm going to head out also, 3k. :) Thanks for the

HOST LFST Jill: invite... it's been an interesting night. :)

RBCF 3000: HOST LFST Jill, thank you so much for being here with us!

RBCF Heart: night Jill

RBCF 3000: Thanks to you too, RBCF Heart. <3

RBCF Heart: <bow>

Serendipitous12: applause clap clap

GorillaNtheMist: class over

Grazhopprr: when the hosties pat each other on the back, i scratch my head most curiously

RBCF Heart: @}---->-------{RBCF 3000}-------<----{@

Log Count: There were 18 member(s) in The New Age at 09:00 PM

NightPath: Flowr. similar to many

NightPath: ways..have you heard of either?

RBCF 3000: Brangwen, yes, class is over, and the logs are available in keyword New Age, Library II.

RBCF 3000: back next Monday night at 10:30, and you are invited to our new

RBCF 3000: Good night, friends-- thanks for quite a lively conversation. Come

RBCF 3000: chat, "The Other Side" on Wednesday at midnight.