PowerChat: *** Entered The New Age on 2/21/00 at 07:29 PM ***

Log Count: There were 24 member(s) in The New Age at 07:30 PM

RBCF 3000: Good evening, dear friends.

RBCF 3000: As soon as you all get settled, we'll start warming

RBCF 3000: you up for our featured class tonight.

RochelleDo: I am looking forward to it, 3000

ANU777: Eye....in my own experience..it is only the rare visitations that I pay any attention to

EyeOvRa: these are rare

Gigiaki: what class would that be RB?

HOST LFST Heart: Hello everyone

RBCF 3000: Welcome, everyone -- and happy Presidents' day.

RBCF 3000: Tonight is our thirteenth class in Ecstatic Awareness:

RBCF 3000: "Awakeness in dreaming attention. Setting up trance states."

RBCF 3000: Once again, for those who are joining us for the first

RBCF 3000: time, the way we are using the word "ecstatic

RBCF 3000: awareness" here means entering into states of

RBCF 3000: consciousness, accompanied by transformation of

RBCF 3000: being, in which the supernatural and the Miraculous

RBCF 3000: can be witnessed and experienced directly.

HOST LFST Heart: getting comfy

HOST LFST Heart: semi protocol please

ANU777: 3000 I live in that state all the time.......alas

RochelleDo: I have actually just lately really felt and known

RochelleDo: my dreams, it has been incredibly profound that I

RochelleDo: know it now a liitle more each time

RBCF 3000: Some books that I have found most useful with

RBCF 3000: tonight's subject are "The Eagle's Gift" by Castaneda,

RBCF 3000: "The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution" by

RBCF 3000: Ouspensky, "The Kin of Ata are Waiting for You"

RBCF 3000: (whose author I don't recall), "The Reluctant

RBCF 3000: Shaman" by Kay Whitaker, and "Being in Dreaming"

RBCF 3000: by Florinda Donner.

RBCF 3000: I should mention that, in tonight's context, by

RBCF 3000: *Dreaming*, I am not referring in any way to dream- interpretation.

Zamurito: RBCF, what is your definition of *Dreams*?

Zamurito: Or Dreaming?

RBCF 3000: Zamurito, I'll be getting to that tonight--- hang in there.

Zamurito: Ok :) Roll the turkey

RBCF 3000: Ok, friends, let's begin tonight's class: "Awakeness in

RBCF 3000: dreaming attention." I love don Juan's term for this

RBCF 3000: (in Carlos Castaneda's books), which is "the not-

RBCF 3000: doing of first attention" or "the not-doing of

RBCF 3000: sleeping."

RBCF 3000: Now, since "waking" and "sleeping" are supposed to

RBCF 3000: be opposites, you would think that sleeping and

RBCF 3000: waking would be the not-doing of each other.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: One problem is that, from the point of view of

RBCF 3000: Consciousness (of at least the level of second

RBCF 3000: attention), our "waking" is almost indistinguishable

RBCF 3000: from our "sleeping"!

RBCF 3000: That is, we are asleep, and in our sleep, we dream

RBCF 3000: that we are "self-aware" people with "free will." Don

RBCF 3000: Juan calls this "the first ring of power," which is our

RBCF 3000: enslavement, maya, the Matrix (referring to the

RBCF 3000: movie), illusion.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Even if we decide, for the sake of argument, that we

RBCF 3000: are asleep and need to awaken, the claim is that we

RBCF 3000: still only dream that we are awakening, and even

RBCF 3000: "prove" it, by conjuring up "evidence" within the life-

RBCF 3000: dream, just as we do in night-dreams.

RBCF 3000: Only someone who makes the serious attempt to

RBCF 3000: awaken will discover the strength of illusion's

RBCF 3000: tentacles.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: What is usually referred to as lucid dreaming is not a

RBCF 3000: solution to this problem, because when the dreamer

RBCF 3000: realizes s/he is dreaming, they either get out of the

RBCF 3000: context of whatever danger is perceived, or they

RBCF 3000: deliberately change the dream to something more

RBCF 3000: comfortable.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: So before we address the key point of tonight's topic,

RBCF 3000: "Awakeness in dreaming attention," we should first

RBCF 3000: discuss ways of bringing will and consciousness into

RBCF 3000: our dreams, and how we would benefit from doing so.

RBCF 3000: I'd like to hear from you about that, or any comments

RBCF 3000: or questions you may have about my assertion that

RBCF 3000: we are asleep and at-effect in our waking lives. Go

RBCF 3000: ahead now, please... open floor for a few minutes.

RBCF 3000: Feel free to scroll back up if it went by too fast.

RBCF 3000: .................................

Zamurito: 3k, if you say lucid dreaming may not help, what would then? Is this not bringing will into

Zamurito: dreaming?

Andreaaspn: I think awareness would help

Andreaaspn: understanding the symbology and language of your dreams

Andreaaspn: in the sleeping state

Andreaaspn: would enable you to understand the same symbology

Andreaaspn: in your waking state

RochelleDo: I changed mine to a move I was in and was

RochelleDo: comforted by the fact that I would soon realize

RochelleDo: the outcome of the mystery

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, yes, awareness-- and courage, firmness, resolve, like that..

Nubbinus: all is thought appearing

Nubbinus: but who is the one who sees?

Andreaaspn: lucid dreaming could still be used, not as an escape, but as an attempt to understand the

Andreaaspn: lesson at hand

Andreaaspn: and work toward a solution

RochelleDo: <--having such a wicked late lifestyle, I get

RochelleDo: many interruptions for current late morning sleep

RochelleDo: and I get to explore so much more now.

Thottful: are you saying we are all in a dream state??

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, symbols and language refer more to

RBCF 3000: analysis and interpretation, which we are side-

RBCF 3000: stepping for tonight's particular discussion.

Andreaaspn: oh

RBCF 3000: Nubbinus, that gets a bigger question, rather than an "answer", right?

Zamurito: 3k, is lucid dreaming not a first step to dreaming awake?

Nubbinus: no

RBCF 3000: Thottful, exactly yes-- dream upon dream upon dream...

Nubbinus: it is the answer

RochelleDo: which one is more important?

ANU777: terminology seems to confuse humans

Log Count: There were 26 member(s) in The New Age at 07:45 PM

Bethiam27: I have the same question as thottful. Are you saying we are all in a dream state?

Andreaaspn: 3000 is it dream upon dream, or one continuous dream by our design?

Bethiam27: And are we always in this dream state?

RochelleDo: who is to say which state is more relevant?

Sunglo001: agreed, Anu

Attune777: forgetfull state, maybe...

Trish0719: so if we are always in dream, various states of dreaming, help us attain a higher level?

ANU777: both states are the same

Grl Cn Mv: i think were all sleeping 99% of the time

Nubbinus: cool

RBCF 3000: Zamurito, only if coupled with discipline. I've known

RBCF 3000: so many lucid dreamers who never made changes in

RBCF 3000: themselves, never really learned from their dreams,

RBCF 3000: just went flying around, or whatever.

RochelleDo: are they not each and all experience?

Bethiam27: by our design? Andrea, meaning we control the dreams?

Zamurito: OIC

Andreaaspn: absolutely -- or more Beth, that we create/manifest our reality

Andreaaspn: in our own dream state

Andreaaspn: yes?

ANU777: I suspect imagination is more real than laundry

Andreaaspn: have not read the material of which you speak 3000, so not sure I'm on the same wavelength

SeerMagi: can anybody here actually say you can influence your dreams?

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, careful observation shows us that

RBCF 3000: "continuity" is very illusory-- we spend a lot of enery

RBCF 3000: editing and filtering to make everything come out "as

RBCF 3000: expected", even if unexpected

ANU777: Seer....yes

RochelleDo: I dont see a create in dream state, only an

RochelleDo: acceptance, is that bad?

Nubbinus: yes we can seer you know that

Bethiam27: I am not sure about contolling our dreams -- wouldn't that be a lot like controlling destiny?

Andreaaspn: can you elaborate 3000?

ANU777: our thoughts control many outcome

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, the books are just supplemental--

RBCF 3000: everything we need to do, is there by experience.

ANU777: after all......our thoughts do make us ill

ANU777: so they can also heal us

RBCF 3000: RochelleDo, please explain your question a little more...?

Andreaaspn: energy to edit and expected/unexpected lost me

Nubbinus: and make us whole Anu

ANU777: uh huh

Lenohand: the dream world is where we escape and revel in.. I beg to differ

Magycian: autosuggestion might be invaluable

Nubbinus: <smile>

RBCF 3000: ANU, my premise is that, not our *thoughts* but our *intent* creates *everything*.

SeerMagi: Beth, I hear a lot of talk about controlling dreams, but I can't meet anyone who can

SeerMagi: actuallly do it

Andreaaspn: beth, I think controlling dreams and destiny are the same -- yes?

ANU777: thoughts are not escapism, they are creation at the best level

Sunglo001: to be completely honest, I haven't been following that closely.. but I think there

Sunglo001: are a lot of things that go on in the sleeping world

Sunglo001: 1) your mind is trying to TELL you something...

Sunglo001: 2) connection with the higher self... (etc)

RBCF 3000: Sunglo, you betcha!

DCizunas: Leno, but this revelry...it has nothing to help us grow and realize more

Nubbinus: what do you meant by intent 3000? I think I understand what you mean

RBCF 3000: Lenohand, once you really get into Dreaming, you'll

RBCF 3000: find that it is an intense learning experience.

Trish0719: but we can work through issues and problems in our dreams

Bethiam27: i agree Seer. I haven't mastered it yet. Some things I believe are out of our hands, that is.

Bethiam27: what enables us to learn so much from life.

Attune777: the intent has to be based on a belief no?..3000

ANU777: It is really quite simple

Lenohand: I agree 3K

Nubbinus: yes Attune

Magycian: so its the intent and not the thought

Sunglo001: 3) (and I know this first hand) connection with higher beings

Nubbinus: it all comes back to belief

SeerMagi: Beth, the only reason its out of your hands is because you allow it to be that way

RBCF 3000: Nubbinus, let's say "intent" = the sum of all our

RBCF 3000: wishing = Power when focused in a single emanation.

ANU777: intent carries energy

RochelleDo: the wildness of dreams goes beyond what you would

SeerMagi: intent IS energy

RochelleDo: accept in waking state, no?

Andreaaspn: yes but difference between controlling and manifesting

ANU777: fear has energy

Nubbinus: I understand

ANU777: desire has energy

Bethiam27: how are we to learn then if we can control everything? Where does the life lessons come in?

RochelleDo: it includes all the senses

ANU777: your life is the greater of the energy you project

RochelleDo: I remember smell this week

SeerMagi: life's lessons are right there inside you

RBCF 3000: Attune, *belief* can channel intent, but it is precisely

RBCF 3000: all our *believing* that most robs us of power, I find.

RochelleDo: what power?

Attune777: okay, 3000

Nubbinus: how do you mean 3000?

Magycian: yeah it could be good or bad

AzureWinds: Rochelle, the only power there is...LOVE

RochelleDo: I am still so ignorant

Magycian: Is that from intellect or wisdom 3000?

ANU777: caution is which holds more energy....your fear or your desire

Nubbinus: what we really believe will appear

Attune777: too many beliefs will distort the intended intent, hey, 3000?

RBCF 3000: Magycian, wisdom, of course (I hope

Andreaaspn: Beth -- control does not allow you to accept the divine order of chaos -- manifesting your

Andreaaspn: own reality does

Nubbinus: lol

Andreaaspn: inside or outside of dream state

Magycian: sounded like a blend 3000

Lenohand: 3K surely intent is what we are accountable for on this plane?

AzureWinds: Belief's are what we hold onto to fill the void of not knowing!

Bethiam27: can you explain that a little better please Andrea?

Zamurito: Azure, good point

RochelleDo: Azure, I am with you there

Nubbinus: true and not true Azure winds

SeerMagi: Azy, that's very good :-)

RBCF 3000: Lenohand, intent accounts for *every* plane.

Sunglo001: isn't the road to hell paved with good intentions? (sorry, couldn't help it)

Attune777: so, the key is to be accepting, to learn how to be accepting of our experiences

Nubbinus: knowing is also a belief

Andreaaspn: not trying to take away from formal chat, but when we allow events to happen

Andreaaspn: and accept that they are for our highest good

AzureWinds: Nub nope

Eddie Go Braugh: and I've heard tell... the road to hell..... is paved with good intentions

Magycian: good intentions indicates the deed wasn't done

RochelleDo: may not necessarily account, 3k, may merely

RochelleDo: reflect on other planes?

Andreaaspn: instead of trying to control the outcome

Andreaaspn: we better manifest our reality

Andreaaspn: there is a divine order to chaos

RBCF 3000: Sunglo, I guess you kind of know the diff betwixt

RBCF 3000: "good intentions" and *intent-as-the-totality-of-our-

RBCF 3000: wishing*, right?

RochelleDo: do we really interact on all planes in an

RochelleDo: accountable way?

Bethiam27: that makes sense Andrea. How come when cannot actually control our "sleep" dreams?

Andreaaspn: and we manifest in our waking/sleeping states

Magycian: you talking about wishing now?

RochelleDo: gosh, I thought the dream was merely an

RochelleDo: observation

Wingsoligh: Ok wishing What about The alchemist who does more than wish

Wingsoligh: Who brings His dreams to reality

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, yes, that is what we are going for here.

Zamurito: Wings, I bring my dreams to this dream all the time....

DCizunas: I'm thinking of an instance of dreaming.. my mother still *thinks* everyone lives with 1950's morality

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, please explain about the alchemist...?

Magycian: Well in a wish there are two sides the power and the intent

Attune777: Magycian, and the vibration of each one!

Magycian: Yes Attune

Wingsoligh: They create There own Reality By using the energy of The Universe

RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, exactly-- you get an "A"

Andreaaspn: well, we create our own illusions in our waking states just as much as in our sleeping state

Andreaaspn: as in the case of your mother DC

RochelleDo: tis true, Andrea

Wingsoligh: Thank you

Attune777: I agreee, Andrea

Sunglo001: Andrea ~ I couldn't agree more!

DCizunas: That's what I was thinking Andreaa

AzureWinds: Andreaspn, so are you saying, that the only reason i

AzureWinds: exist is because i am one of your illusions?

Wingsoligh: Much love and Light to you all

Andreaaspn: all on the same wavelength?

Lenohand: so good intentions are futile 3K?

RBCF 3000: Lenohand, not futile like that-- it's just that we never

RBCF 3000: know why we are "helping", and it's not from the

RBCF 3000: whole of ourselves, which we are using Dreaming to

RBCF 3000: get to, see?

AzureWinds: I have actually been told that LOL

Andreaaspn: I have too --

Andreaaspn: I am talking about the illusions I manifest as a result of the way I think

Magycian: wouldnt that be nice Az, lol?

Andreaaspn: I think we each have the capacity to do that

Log Count: There were 32 member(s) in The New Age at 08:00 PM

Andreaaspn: in waking/sleeping states

AzureWinds: Oh got ya, I believe that is called delusion LOL

Trish0719: so our dreams explain to our subconscious what we didn't understand in our waking state?

RochelleDo: Andreaaspn, that be what is required for growth, no?

AzureWinds: Magy, yes, there are a few i would like to poof out of existance

Sunglo001: but in dreaming ~ the only illusion is the symbolism (which we aren't discussing tonight)...

Sunglo001: the truth, however, is there.

Andreaaspn: yes Rochelle

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, can you make that, "the way we

RBCF 3000: *intend*"? Because our "thinking" turns out to be

RBCF 3000: pretty muddy and full of someone else's

RBCF 3000: programming, doesn't it?

Magycian: So we revert to the Astral Plane when we dream?

Sunglo001: 3K ~ you don't think we can reprogram ourselves?

Andreaaspn: yes -- but our thinking, or our mental atmosphere, becomes a frame of reference for our

Andreaaspn: intentions, 3000

Andreaaspn: hence the delusions, or illusions

RochelleDo: in earlier years especially, 3K

Andreaaspn: we are all delusional!

Andreaaspn: just kidding, by the way

RBCF 3000: Magycian, dreaming has connections to many,

RBCF 3000: perhaps all, of these levels-- but takes skill and

RBCF 3000: persistence to find the threads.

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, sort of-- we'll be getting to that in more detail.

Andreaaspn: okay

RBCF 3000: All right, friends-- great discussion. Now let us

RBCF 3000: continue with the second section of tonight's class.

RBCF 3000: Please hold comments just until I have a chance the

RBCF 3000: roll out the next few paragraphs of the text

RBCF 3000: .............................................

RBCF 3000: Now we more or less have a sense that, if we can

RBCF 3000: bring intent and will into our dream life, perhaps it is

RBCF 3000: possible to do that with our waking lives, especially if

RBCF 3000: it turns out that our "waking" lives are just persistent dreams.

RBCF 3000: Sometimes I think that this was not true of my reality

RBCF 3000: at first, but between my obsessive desire to find real

RBCF 3000: magic in my world, and the psychosis around me in

RBCF 3000: my early life, and later from my practices, my reality

RBCF 3000: was ultimately pushed and distorted until it now does

RBCF 3000: seem very dreamlike and fluid. Now my life is full of

RBCF 3000: synchronicities, gaps, "gifts" and even miracles.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: At this point, I must explain to you what "dreaming

RBCF 3000: attention" is supposed to be. When we have

RBCF 3000: awakened our life within our dreams, such as may

RBCF 3000: happen with astral projection, it belongs to the

RBCF 3000: "Other," the side of ourselves that knows everything

RBCF 3000: we've ever done, that sets up fateful encounters for

RBCF 3000: us to fall into.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: But actually, the Other is even more yourself than

RBCF 3000: your "normal waking" self is, because "it" sees the

RBCF 3000: whole picture, surrounds your ordinary life in "space"

RBCF 3000: and in "time," and waits for you in eternity. It is your

RBCF 3000: own eternal self-- not your "soul" in the Sunday

RBCF 3000: school sense, but YOU.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: So the trick I'd like to offer you is that of being the

RochelleDo: wow

RBCF 3000: other side of your self, the side that dreams you. In

RBCF 3000: setting up this trick, you will feel at first silly, then

RBCF 3000: strange, and then you will feel insane.

RBCF 3000: If we are successful, you will feel like you are dying,

RBCF 3000: and if you are lucky, you may feel like you have been

RBCF 3000: reborn, but as a new Being, with very different

RBCF 3000: senses and cognition and *intent* from your old self.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Your "new" self (which is your original Self that

RBCF 3000: invented your "parents" and gave "birth" to you),

RBCF 3000: being your Dreamer, has unlimited powers in the

RBCF 3000: context of your waking dream, just as you have

RBCF 3000: unlimited power in your own dreams, once you

RBCF 3000: realize that you are dreaming, and once you have

RBCF 3000: gained dexterity and volition in them.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: ****** This might be a good time to stop and talk

RBCF 3000: about how good a model of reality this is, and how it

RBCF 3000: matches up with religious doctrine and mythology

RBCF 3000: and your own experiences. Go right ahead now,

RBCF 3000: please-- open floor for a while. Take your time to

RBCF 3000: scroll up and reread, if you wish. ......................

Sunglo001: isn't this all a metaphor for being responsible for ourselves?

Sunglo001: (woops... kinda blunt,huh?)

Sunglo001: you can't go back 3K

Lenohand: I think we do know when we are helping and we will find the truth about our real selves though

SPEDE RUSH: karma?

Sunglo001: I think I might be there already

Andreaaspn: ahhh I see your differentiation between intent and thinking

Andreaaspn: I think --- they come from different aspects of self?

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, whew!

RochelleDo: <--opting for reborn

AzureWinds: WOW Soul, you seem to be well read

Magycian: So I could insert my future plans in my dream state

Andreaaspn: the thinking from the you and the intention from the YOU

Andreaaspn: lolol

RBCF 3000: SPEDE RUSH, do you see how it's different from karma?


Magycian: there is a Goddess of dreams

RochelleDo: mega wow

Andreaaspn: yes?

Trish0719: so our Other is our spirit self that knows all our lives and why we are here

RBCF 3000: Magycian, you DO insert your future into your dream, whether you like it or not!

Magycian: I know I know

Magycian: thats how I escaped from jail, lol

RBCF 3000: Trish, it is YOU, and the Whole You knows everything that you ARE, see what I mean?

Andreaaspn: Okay 3000, clarification -- when we fully "awaken" we intend, or manifest our reality,

Andreaaspn: through that aspect of ourselves that is our soul

JacobJG: yes, andrea, we manifest instantly

Andreaaspn: or who we are outside of our "selves"

Trish0719: yes, none of the veils that cloud us during waking - right?

Andreaaspn: physical-mental-emotional selves, I mean

Magycian: thats why autosuggestion is valuable before sleep

RochelleDo: is it a matter of belief or faith to "know"?

SPEDE RUSH: the book "The Celestine Prophecy" says that whatever we intend, automatically manifests

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, we already DO manifest everything but,

RBCF 3000: being asleep, we don't realize how we are doing it,

RBCF 3000: and we have no single, focused purpose to it from

RBCF 3000: this level.

AzureWinds: I guess I think I might have not know all

AzureWinds: that, but I am not sure...can anyone tell me if I knew all

AzureWinds: that or not

Conscious energy: We as fragments of God energy are also fragments of our higher selves experiencing dimensional

Conscious energy: drama for spiritual growth

RBCF 3000: Magycian, yes, if we know what we're doing by it, eh?

Magycian: repeat your intent 40 times as you fall asleep

Lenohand: be careful of your intent my friends

RBCF 3000: RochelleDo, not belief, but a certain sense of Faith--

RBCF 3000: that is, a deep, visceral trust aside from words.

Magycian: Well you could say the hail mary, lol

Andreaaspn: 3000, I would propose that we oftentimes don't know how we are manifesting our reality when

Andreaaspn: we are awake

DCizunas: <---inserting a lyric "was blind but now I see"

RochelleDo: an acceptence that we have it all within?

Magycian: a modified rosary would be good for New Agers

RBCF 3000: Magycian, good point-- by invoking archetypes of

RBCF 3000: Faith, it helps to focus our intent and awareness to

RBCF 3000: change reality.

Andreaaspn: but you are talking about understanding and being cognizant of our manifestation

SPEDE RUSH: that would explain why victims always find other victims or other aggressors

RochelleDo: more than a belief

Lorinaz: I agree 3K

DCizunas: Magy, how would that help??

Andreaaspn: in waking/sleeping states

RBCF 3000: Magycian, I do a rosary on the names of the Christ every morning.

Andreaaspn: yes Spede, I agree

Magycian: I just said its autosuggestion

Magycian: well do it at night too!

Andreaaspn: grace Azure (was a devout Catholic once upon a time)

RBCF 3000: Magycian, I have other practices at night, and more during the day as well.

RochelleDo: mary was always most special to me

RochelleDo: that is all I have left from my Catholic upbringing

DCizunas: Ah, understand you now Magy...just so you don't have to count!! LOL!!

RBCF 3000: RochelleDo, then you can invoke her to catalyze your

RBCF 3000: intent, and you will then BE miraculous.

Lenohand: 3K you are teaching everyone in here it is all right not to be responsible for actions on the

Lenohand: earth plane

RochelleDo: yes, 3 k

RBCF 3000: Lenohand, nope, not at all.

Zamurito: Hows that Lenohand?

Andreaaspn: me too Rochelle

AzureWinds: 3000, why would one want to invoke another to catalyze ones own intent?

Sunglo001: lol ~ short answer

SPEDE RUSH: because it benefits them

Lenohand: nope suggests lightheartedness

DCizunas: Leno, the lightheartness is in the dreamer, not the cognizant, IMO

Andreaaspn: Azure, I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for help

Andreaaspn: from Mary, or any of the saints, or your guides, or angels, or whatever

Log Count: There were 26 member(s) in The New Age at 08:15 PM

Andreaaspn: it doesn't mean you have to forfeit your own integrity or internal guidance

RochelleDo: Muse :))

AzureWinds: Andrea, no there isn't, but asking anyone to manifest

AzureWinds: our intentions is defeating the purpose, if anything, i

AzureWinds: would think that "whatever" invoked, would teach us to

AzureWinds: manifest for ourselves.G

SPEDE RUSH: it is our nature to let others do it for us, isn't it?

AzureWinds: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him

AzureWinds: how to fish, and he will eat a lifetime.

Andreaaspn: I couldn't agree with you more

SPEDE RUSH: we'd rather let us be given

Andreaaspn: it is the essential difference of empowerment and dependence

SPEDE RUSH: than to take the time to learn a craft

AzureWinds: LOL, no, it was my mothers favorite daily preach, especially when i asked her for help.

RochelleDo: so where does "evoked" come from Azure?

Andreaaspn: but asking for guidance in manifestation --- I think that is a different thing, yes?

SPEDE RUSH: 3k, a lot of times I feel as if I am dreaming when I am awake

SPEDE RUSH: like...nothing is even there

SPEDE RUSH: I'm just viewing it from the outside

RBCF 3000: SPEDE RUSH, please explain...?

SPEDE RUSH: it's kind of like the perspective you have when you watch TV

SPEDE RUSH: or you're in a dream that isn't lucid

SPEDE RUSH: and you know you're dreaming...or you know you're watching TV

Andreaaspn: we can ask for help to make better informed decisions --

BIRDIO2991: i have visions just before the sleep state

Joelle007: is it like being the "witness" spede rush ?

Magycian: so the dream diary first thing in the morning

DCizunas: Azure, I just ask for whomever is around to give me help, not picky

SPEDE RUSH: you feel separated from it

RBCF 3000: SPEDE RUSH, oh, I think I see what you're getting at.

RBCF 3000: Yes, I feel that way about my *life*, and my dreams

RBCF 3000: seem far more real.

AzureWinds: BIRDIO, they are natural and normal to the first stage of sleep

SPEDE RUSH: so then my perspective of reality has changed

AzureWinds: in fact, they are part of the first stage

Andreaaspn: I can relate to that Birdio

RBCF 3000: BIRDIO, do you use those hypnogogic visions to travel with intentionally?

BIRDIO2991: i had a long one one time and my eyes wide open

Magycian: We receive spiritual energies through the night

BIRDIO2991: no they just come

AzureWinds: Birdio, I have too

Joelle007: especially between 3 and 6 am, the most silent part of the night

SPEDE RUSH: when I close my eyes....

RBCF 3000: that's the term for visions that come between waking and sleep.

SPEDE RUSH: things that are on my mind take shape in the darkness

SPEDE RUSH: in the most abstract and cryptic form

Magycian: Well I think it has to do with you Jo

Magycian: times vary by hours

RochelleDo: no silent online, Joelle

Andreaaspn: so how do you use them for intentionality purposes?

Joelle007: what do you mean rochelle ?

SPEDE RUSH: at first it looks like random blobs of color

RochelleDo: Joelle, my best times online at that time

AzureWinds: Joe, you may want to get a scientific book on the stages

AzureWinds: of sleep, you will fin that between 3 and 6 is the most

AzureWinds: active part of the dream state for sleep

BIRDIO2991: azure? it has only been happening the night before and my son died and since then for 7 year

BIRDIO2991: years now

Andreaaspn: really Birdio? what is the vision?

SPEDE RUSH: ...and then it starts to coalesce and becomes distinct shapes and things

RochelleDo: depends when you sleep

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, that's actually what I'm going for in

RBCF 3000: tonight's material-- putting together the focus and

RBCF 3000: skill needed to travel and work in tween-state visions.

RochelleDo: blooming time zones make my favorite things to

RochelleDo: be up for during those hours

Magycian: some people sleep in the day

AzureWinds: BIRDIO, when there are life changes, we become more

AzureWinds: aware, and most people are not aware of the stages of

AzureWinds: sleep as they pass thru them.

BIRDIO2991: andrea? night before my son died...... i lay in bed my husband asleep beside me

AzureWinds: you became aware of the stages of sleep

BIRDIO2991: when like in 3d were four of the msot magnificent angels i had ever seen

RBCF 3000: AzureWinds, right-- those changes make it possible

RBCF 3000: to insert even miracles between the "normal"

RBCF 3000: sequences.

BIRDIO2991: was not frightened

Magycian: Cool Bird

Andreaaspn: listening Bird -- intrigued

RochelleDo: if you require a miracle?

BIRDIO2991: they were standing above a storm raging over my sons home

Andreaaspn: wow

RochelleDo: can that not be scarey?

RBCF 3000: RochelleDo, for my work, I DO require miracles, lots of 'em!

BIRDIO2991: all of my family gathered kneeling in prayer in a middle room of house

RochelleDo: what if you are not ready?

AzureWinds: BIRDIO, I would have to say, that was not a sleep stage!

RochelleDo: aww, 3k, you are special

Magycian: Was the house near you?

AzureWinds: that was exactly what it was

BIRDIO2991: i was up in the sky and looking down on it all

Andreaaspn: son's house

Andreaaspn: son passed on

RBCF 3000: :::::: blushes ::::::

Magycian: Yes And I knew but was it a house in the distance she could see?

BIRDIO2991: they were warrior angels or beings each golden and hloding a gold staff like a shepherd

BIRDIO2991: their hair clothes all blowing in the wind

BIRDIO2991: and the next afternoon my son was electrocuted

RBCF 3000: BIRDIO, wow-- your dreams are biblical!

RochelleDo: <--determined to learn more about houses <g>

TEECHINA: I had wake/ sleep dream of archangels

SPEDE RUSH: I do not understand the shepherd concept....yet I feel as if I am guided by a hand sometimes

RBCF 3000: TEECHINA, how did you know what they were?

Lenohand: only true, true untrapped spirits may envision this Bird God allowed this

AzureWinds: BIRDIO, were you alseep when this occurred?

BIRDIO2991: so i think perhaps they were there to tell me but i knew not

BIRDIO2991: no not asleep

Magycian: No Az

AzureWinds: Then it was not a dream, but a vision

TEECHINA: they said their names,,and there were also some Catholic saints, weird

Magycian: a forewarning vision

AzureWinds: right

Andreaaspn: birdio -- it was a forewarning vision, but not your responsibility to change

BIRDIO2991: i could not speak of it for 2 yrs without getting hysterical

AzureWinds: I can imagine

RBCF 3000: Lenohand, in the paradigm I am proposing tonight

RBCF 3000: (and all through the series), "God" is not "some-

RBCF 3000: other-guy" who lets or makes bad things happen.

Andreaaspn: incredible power in the vision

BIRDIO2991: now i am writing it all down for it is still very vivid to me

RBCF 3000: We are looking at how it is all our dreaming, and what

RBCF 3000: it takes to make reality suit us perfectly.


RBCF 3000: All right, friends-- let us now move into the

RBCF 3000: breathtaking conclusion of tonight's class -- "Setting

RBCF 3000: up trance states." Please hold comments just until I

RBCF 3000: have a chance the roll out the last section of our text

RBCF 3000: .............................................

RBCF 3000: We usually think of trances as states in which we are

RBCF 3000: hypnotized and someone else has control over us, or

RBCF 3000: as the semiconscious condition resulting from

RBCF 3000: psychological trauma.


RBCF 3000: Buddhist oracles and Voodoo witches also go into

RBCF 3000: trances where there mumbling and gyrations may be

RBCF 3000: interpreted as prophecy.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: But the way we are using the word "trance" in this

RBCF 3000: discussion, we are referring to volitional (and

RBCF 3000: possibly even with extraordinarily keen perceptions

RBCF 3000: and cognition) states of non-ordinary awareness.

RBCF 3000: It is through such states that we ultimately make

RBCF 3000: contact with the other side of ourselves, and with the

RBCF 3000: infinite.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Any disciplines and practices that you have been

RBCF 3000: doing consistently, every day, for enough years, will

RBCF 3000: help with this, as will near-death experiences,

RBCF 3000: especially if you have had more than one of these.

RBCF 3000: Spirit channeling, psychic attunement and astral

RBCF 3000: projection are certainly included, but we have to be

RBCF 3000: extra careful of hitch-hikers and bugs that we tend to

RBCF 3000: pick up in such practices.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Now we are ready for the "advanced" practices,

RBCF 3000: which always appear absurd, moronic and totally

RBCF 3000: useless. Don Juan calls them "not-doings"; others

RBCF 3000: call them warrior tasks, quests, rituals, and so on. I'll

RBCF 3000: divide them into "active" and "passive" praxes.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Everyone who has gone to church has seen remnants

RBCF 3000: of some of the active praxes, like bowing

RBCF 3000: rhythmically, singing hymns, doing sacramental

RBCF 3000: rituals, confession and, in some temples, sacred

RBCF 3000: dance.

RBCF 3000: In monasteries we also find fasting, prostrations,

RBCF 3000: ablutions, shakti-pat, chanting, sand-painting and

RBCF 3000: performing charitable acts.

RBCF 3000: .

Log Count: There were 23 member(s) in The New Age at 08:30 PM

RBCF 3000: With the right intent and setting, any of these

RBCF 3000: practices, done consistently, can set up at least the

RBCF 3000: preliminary states leading to Communion, satori,

RBCF 3000: epiphany or samadhi, as well as fixations of attention

RBCF 3000: which are generally thought of as abnormal in our

RBCF 3000: Western culture.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Some of the passive practices that I know include

RBCF 3000: "gazing," where I focus on clouds, leaves, water,

RBCF 3000: sand or a surface texture, with my mind perfectly

RBCF 3000: quiet, until the liquids become solid or gaseous, the

RBCF 3000: textures start rippling, and light and shadows change

RBCF 3000: places.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Now the shadows take on their own personalities,

RBCF 3000: and can interact with us, such as delivering

RBCF 3000: messages or showing us where the breaks are in the

RBCF 3000: fabric of reality. Leaves rustle somewhere inside of

RBCF 3000: us, triggering impossible memories in us.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: One of my favorite passive exercises has been

RBCF 3000: referred to as "trespasse'," but I prefer to call it

RBCF 3000: simply eye-gazing. You and a willing partner sit

RBCF 3000: across from each other with your heads as lined up

RBCF 3000: as you can get them, so that your eyes are not at all

RBCF 3000: sideways to each other.

RBCF 3000: Now soften your gaze until you are no longer looking,

RBCF 3000: but more like *receiving* the other person's gaze.

RBCF 3000: Let your vision travel through them; watch for such

RBCF 3000: things as their face changing completely.

RBCF 3000: It may switch genders, or change from young to old, or even look like an alien being.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Now, with these gazing techniques, it is very

RBCF 3000: important to keep the eyes receptive and relaxed, to

RBCF 3000: simply take in new impressions, but avoid any

RBCF 3000: fixation, especially as you gain power and elegance

RBCF 3000: with it.

RBCF 3000: Otherwise the attention of the Other (the "second

RBCF 3000: attention") gets stuck, and you might find yourself

RBCF 3000: obsessed, hallucinatory or even possessed.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: When this happens, we can't see it ourselves; it

RBCF 3000: takes the intervention of someone we trust who has

RBCF 3000: real power, not someone who has merely learned to

RBCF 3000: go through the motions and recite empty

RBCF 3000: incantations over us.

RBCF 3000: It is very common to be buried in the earth or

RBCF 3000: suspended in a tree for a week in order to break the

RBCF 3000: fixation.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Another very good practice is simply to take some

RBCF 3000: habitual routine that you do, and do it intentionally

RBCF 3000: different every day.

RBCF 3000: You can also spend time in trees, walk backwards,

RBCF 3000: sdrawkcab etirw, and return greetings

RBCF 3000: inappropriately. While these not-doings may get you

RBCF 3000: strange looks, they don't tend to trap the 2nd

RBCF 3000: attention.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Here's a very important exercise that you can always

RBCF 3000: do: TASTE *every* bite that you eat, every sip that

RBCF 3000: you drink. Really taste it. If you smoke, really taste

RBCF 3000: and feel the smoke all the way down.

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: Afterwards, you can extend this to touch, smell and

RBCF 3000: hearing-- you'll be astonished at how much more of

RBCF 3000: even the ordinary world there is that we've been

RBCF 3000: entirely missing!

RBCF 3000: .

RBCF 3000: ****** Well, friends, this completes the ideas and

RBCF 3000: exercises that I'd like you to examine tonight. Now

RBCF 3000: let's hear your questions and comments. Go right

RBCF 3000: ahead now, please. The floor is now open for

RBCF 3000: discussion on this entire subject.

RBCF 3000: ....................................

AzureWinds: 3000, why do you speak as tho we are not already in

AzureWinds: touch with that side of us, as if we have to do

AzureWinds: something to get there?

Lenohand: is it not a sad state that people here feel they have been in 'jail"?

Sunglo001: it's called awareness

AzureWinds: lol

Sunglo001: honestly

Lenohand: why succumb to such a feeling?

AzureWinds: Sounds like a drill done in Scientology in the Communications course.

AzureWinds: possessed?

BIRDIO2991: 3000 i attended a workshop once and did that practice and this persons face became the face

BIRDIO2991: of a beautiful wolf. never again

RochelleDo: and acceptance

RochelleDo: non-judgmental

Sunglo001: really being aware.. of the sights and sounds around you

Lenohand: goodnight 3K, very interesting indeed!!

RochelleDo: each where one is meant to be

BIRDIO2991: is anything mentioned here tonight, i have been here 10 min, been similar to voodoo?

Sunglo001: Rochelle ~ agreed... have said that several times in the last week

Lenohand: except for the sorry bastard that was trapped in jail on earth

Zamurito: I have done quite a bit of gazing.....Interesting...

RochelleDo: Sun, there can never be too much promotion of

RochelleDo: acceptance

RBCF 3000: BIRDIO, yes, in that the real practice of Voodoo

RBCF 3000: involves ecstatic trance to get in contact with the

RBCF 3000: spirit guides.

Sunglo001: see.. the thing is.. it doesn't have to be complicated... why we, as humans, do that, is

Sunglo001: beyond me.

SPEDE RUSH: what is actually happening when we see the distortions around us?

SPEDE RUSH: the rippling and changing?

RochelleDo: Sun, it is required for growth, no?

RBCF 3000: Sunglo, what doesn't have to be complicated?

Susique39: seeing things for the first time is magical

Sunglo001: when you walk out of your house in the morning.. to you HEAR the birds? Different Birds?

Sunglo001: awareness

BIRDIO2991: yes 3000 i thought so

HushTone2k: 3k, the gazing technique.... what about if its done alone, gazing at the mirror.. same effect?

Sunglo001: Actually, Hush.. that's a cool technique

RochelleDo: it is imminent that birds are just bout to sing

RochelleDo: here, Sun, and I do hear them before I go to sleep

MagicGspot: sunglo when i walk out of my house i hear the sound of meatloaf cooking

RBCF 3000: HushTone2k, not the same, but also interesting. More prone to obsession, though.

SPEDE RUSH: narcissism.

Sunglo001: 3K ~ obsession? please explain

Zamurito: 3k, do you have to have someone experienced to gaze with?

Zamurito: What is they try and steal your power?

Andreaaspn: isn't that the same practice shamans use?

RBCF 3000: Sunglo, in all these practices, there is a risk of losing

RBCF 3000: grounding and becoming obsessed, even possessed

RBCF 3000: by "spirits", but really by just our own self-

RBCF 3000: reflections.

Andreaaspn: well, no maybe not

Zamurito: What if

RBCF 3000: Zamurito, one of you should have the skill.

AzureWinds: Right now i am aware of the sound of the fridge, voices

AzureWinds: outside, the temp in the room, my heartbeat, the humm

AzureWinds: in my body and ears, the high pitched sound in my

AzureWinds: ears, the wav legnth of the muted TV in the living room,

AzureWinds: dripping water from sink, rain, wind, my feelings,

AzureWinds: thoughts, the sound of water going thru fridge, sound of

AzureWinds: polight light from oven, sound of air coming in from

AzureWinds: door, smell of rain on concrete, how much more,

AzureWinds: should I go on?

Sunglo001: 3K ~ but if we are trying to become "who we really are".. what is wrong w/self reflections..

Andreaaspn: is the threat of being "possessed" by other spirits in astral travel real?

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, very real.

Sunglo001: if one can see beyond the physical?

Zamurito: Azure, single one out, and become it

Rnonblond: roflmao..

RBCF 3000: Sunglo, because we get trapped in our partitions, and

RBCF 3000: these traps convince us that this is all there is...

Sunglo001: Andrea ~ there isn't a soul on this earth that can answer that w/complete certainty

AzureWinds: Zam, why single one out, I am all of it

RBCF 3000: ... That's what happens to suicidals and shooters and fanatics.

Zamurito: Just a way of practicing

AzureWinds: got ya

SPEDE RUSH: that would be scary

HushTone2k: Sunglo, some are scared of themselves.

SPEDE RUSH: .....I've heard of Trading Places

Zamurito: I flood the senses also

Andreaaspn: is that a walk-in?

BelovedMuse: yes

SPEDE RUSH: where, two people can use each other's body

Sunglo001: I think if you protect yourself... (faith is of the utmost).. it's not likely

SPEDE RUSH: but what would happen?

Sunglo001: no.. a walk-in is different

Lenohand: 3K you really should try to teach people to be responsible for their actions towards others

Sunglo001: a walk in walks in with permission

BelovedMuse: a drive by just jumps in and takes the wheel

RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, "walk-ins" are generally regarded as

RBCF 3000: benevolent spirits that take over on a derelict soul

Andreaaspn: gotcha sunglo-- contract agreement, one walks in and assumes other's life

RBCF 3000: that defaults its body.

Zamurito: Leno, how 'bout we teach ourselves?

RBCF 3000: Lenohand, I didn't know that was up to me.

AzureWinds: Actually, "a walk in" is not a beingness or identity, but a DOING or process!

Sunglo001: Andrea ~ yup

Andreaaspn: so in the case of astral travel, that is an actual possession?

Sunglo001: Andrea ~ no one can possess you...

Sunglo001: attachments are real, however off?

Andreaaspn: thanks sunglo-- light bulbs going off

Andreaaspn: attachments to your spirit --- and souls can become fragmented, hence the shamanic practice

Sunglo001: Andrea ~ this can get kinda creepy.. but attachments are basically people or "things" that

Andreaaspn: of soul retrieval

Sunglo001: attach to your aura.. inside your energy field

Log Count: There were 24 member(s) in The New Age at 08:45 PM

Andreaaspn: am an empath, and have had that not-so-pleasant experience, but I thought it was basically energy

Sunglo001: YES!! hence the shamanic practice!!

AzureWinds: Beloved, kinna sorta a little bit

SPEDE RUSH: I always get naturally high

SPEDE RUSH: I'm not sure how it happens

SPEDE RUSH: but every once in a while I'll enter a trance...

SPEDE RUSH: and even though I'm fully aware...

SPEDE RUSH: I feel like it doesn't matter that I am

SPEDE RUSH: the world around me ripples and bends

Andreaaspn: interesting stuff

Sunglo001: being an empath is NOT an easy thing

BelovedMuse: ummm... sure, ok fine whatever

RBCF 3000: <-- another empath, since childhood.

Sunglo001: me too.

Andreaaspn: ahhh fellow (((((empaths)))))

RBCF 3000: Sunglo, do you help others with your gift ("curse"?)?

SPEDE RUSH: distorts and changes

Lenohand: I sensed it deeply

RBCF 3000: SPEDE RUSH, great-- that's a very specific state of attention that we want to get to!

Sunglo001: LOL ~ 3K ~ yup.... am learning when NOT to.

Andreaaspn: can relate to that Sun!

AzureWinds: SPEDE, I have empathic abilities as well, but i certainly

AzureWinds: do not place importance and significance of the identity

AzureWinds: and beingness of empathy on myself

Witedragin: <---- A great Empath but still developing.

Lenohand: Is anyone here qualified to KNOW???

Sunglo001: to know what, Leno?

ComtDeStGr: No Leno

RBCF 3000: Lenohand, we are ALL qualified to Know *directly*, by ecstatic experience!

DCizunas: Thinking the same thing Sunny

ComtDeStGr: we are all talk

ComtDeStGr: its all we got at the moment

Lenohand: then WHO 3k?

Lenohand: I have a deep awareness and feel the numbing of it still

SPEDE RUSH: what's an empath?

Sunglo001: Comt ~ not really.

SPEDE RUSH: am I an empath?

AzureWinds: SPEDE, do you have empathic abilities?

Witedragin: An Empath is able sometime to feel what another feels.

Sunglo001: Comt ~ LOL ~ ya gotta pay more attention!~

GeorgeYim: great, sun

AzureWinds: SPEDE, are you able to feel the feelings of others?

Witedragin: Most all of us are empaths, but we choose to block it.

SPEDE RUSH: I used to be able to touch someone, and feel whatever pain they were experiencing

SPEDE RUSH: but I've forgotten it

Sunglo001: did that too, Wite

RBCF 3000: Witedragin, can you say how it's different from sympathy?

Andreaaspn: azure, you were saying you do not place importantness of beingness of empath? What do you mean?

Andreaaspn: you don't let it define you?

AzureWinds: SPEDE, good, I wouldn't concern yourself about getting it back either

Witedragin: Spede! You probably got too much pain which caused you to block it.

Witedragin: Speede! I would try to get it back! sorry Azure.


AzureWinds: Andreaaspn, yes, that is exactly what i mean

HushTone2k: 3k, what is the difference? yes good question?

AzureWinds: Andreaaspn, why interesting?

Andreaaspn: (Azure) I appreciate your perspective, and in light of what we have been discussing tonight

Andreaaspn: I think it is relative

Insink22: ahhh being in dreaming!!!

RBCF 3000: Thank you all for participating with us today.

Andreaaspn: thank you 3000! very interesting stuff

RBCF 3000: ::::::: bows humbly ::::::

Log Count: There were 28 member(s) in The New Age at 09:00 PM

RBCF 3000: Ok, friends-- that's all the time I have tonight. See you back here

RBCF 3000: Wednesday midnight. Thanks to Host Heart for taking care of things.