PowerChat: *** Entered The New Age on 2/21/00 at 07:29 PM ***
Log Count: There were 24 member(s) in The New Age at 07:30 PM
RBCF 3000: Good evening, dear friends.
RBCF 3000: As soon as you all get settled, we'll start warming
RBCF 3000: you up for our featured class tonight.
RochelleDo: I am looking forward to it, 3000
ANU777: Eye....in my own experience..it is only the rare visitations that I pay any attention to
EyeOvRa: these are rare
Gigiaki: what class would that be RB?
HOST LFST Heart: Hello everyone
RBCF 3000: Welcome, everyone -- and happy Presidents' day.
RBCF 3000: Tonight is our thirteenth class in Ecstatic Awareness:
RBCF 3000: "Awakeness in dreaming attention. Setting up trance states."
RBCF 3000: Once again, for those who are joining us for the first
RBCF 3000: time, the way we are using the word "ecstatic
RBCF 3000: awareness" here means entering into states of
RBCF 3000: consciousness, accompanied by transformation of
RBCF 3000: being, in which the supernatural and the Miraculous
RBCF 3000: can be witnessed and experienced directly.
HOST LFST Heart: getting comfy
HOST LFST Heart: semi protocol please
ANU777: 3000 I live in that state all the time.......alas
RochelleDo: I have actually just lately really felt and known
RochelleDo: my dreams, it has been incredibly profound that I
RochelleDo: know it now a liitle more each time
RBCF 3000: Some books that I have found most useful with
RBCF 3000: tonight's subject are "The Eagle's Gift" by Castaneda,
RBCF 3000: "The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution" by
RBCF 3000: Ouspensky, "The Kin of Ata are Waiting for You"
RBCF 3000: (whose author I don't recall), "The Reluctant
RBCF 3000: Shaman" by Kay Whitaker, and "Being in Dreaming"
RBCF 3000: by Florinda Donner.
RBCF 3000: I should mention that, in tonight's context, by
RBCF 3000: *Dreaming*, I am not referring in any way to dream- interpretation.
Zamurito: RBCF, what is your definition of *Dreams*?
Zamurito: Or Dreaming?
RBCF 3000: Zamurito, I'll be getting to that tonight--- hang in there.
Zamurito: Ok :) Roll the turkey
RBCF 3000: Ok, friends, let's begin tonight's class: "Awakeness in
RBCF 3000: dreaming attention." I love don Juan's term for this
RBCF 3000: (in Carlos Castaneda's books), which is "the not-
RBCF 3000: doing of first attention" or "the not-doing of
RBCF 3000: sleeping."
RBCF 3000: Now, since "waking" and "sleeping" are supposed to
RBCF 3000: be opposites, you would think that sleeping and
RBCF 3000: waking would be the not-doing of each other.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: One problem is that, from the point of view of
RBCF 3000: Consciousness (of at least the level of second
RBCF 3000: attention), our "waking" is almost indistinguishable
RBCF 3000: from our "sleeping"!
RBCF 3000: That is, we are asleep, and in our sleep, we dream
RBCF 3000: that we are "self-aware" people with "free will." Don
RBCF 3000: Juan calls this "the first ring of power," which is our
RBCF 3000: enslavement, maya, the Matrix (referring to the
RBCF 3000: movie), illusion.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Even if we decide, for the sake of argument, that we
RBCF 3000: are asleep and need to awaken, the claim is that we
RBCF 3000: still only dream that we are awakening, and even
RBCF 3000: "prove" it, by conjuring up "evidence" within the life-
RBCF 3000: dream, just as we do in night-dreams.
RBCF 3000: Only someone who makes the serious attempt to
RBCF 3000: awaken will discover the strength of illusion's
RBCF 3000: tentacles.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: What is usually referred to as lucid dreaming is not a
RBCF 3000: solution to this problem, because when the dreamer
RBCF 3000: realizes s/he is dreaming, they either get out of the
RBCF 3000: context of whatever danger is perceived, or they
RBCF 3000: deliberately change the dream to something more
RBCF 3000: comfortable.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: So before we address the key point of tonight's topic,
RBCF 3000: "Awakeness in dreaming attention," we should first
RBCF 3000: discuss ways of bringing will and consciousness into
RBCF 3000: our dreams, and how we would benefit from doing so.
RBCF 3000: I'd like to hear from you about that, or any comments
RBCF 3000: or questions you may have about my assertion that
RBCF 3000: we are asleep and at-effect in our waking lives. Go
RBCF 3000: ahead now, please... open floor for a few minutes.
RBCF 3000: Feel free to scroll back up if it went by too fast.
RBCF 3000: .................................
Zamurito: 3k, if you say lucid dreaming may not help, what would then? Is this not bringing will into
Andreaaspn: I think awareness would help
Andreaaspn: understanding the symbology and language of your dreams
Andreaaspn: in the sleeping state
Andreaaspn: would enable you to understand the same symbology
Andreaaspn: in your waking state
RochelleDo: I changed mine to a move I was in and was
RochelleDo: comforted by the fact that I would soon realize
RochelleDo: the outcome of the mystery
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, yes, awareness-- and courage, firmness, resolve, like that..
Nubbinus: all is thought appearing
Nubbinus: but who is the one who sees?
Andreaaspn: lucid dreaming could still be used, not as an escape, but as an attempt to understand the
Andreaaspn: lesson at hand
Andreaaspn: and work toward a solution
RochelleDo: <--having such a wicked late lifestyle, I get
RochelleDo: many interruptions for current late morning sleep
RochelleDo: and I get to explore so much more now.
Thottful: are you saying we are all in a dream state??
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, symbols and language refer more to
RBCF 3000: analysis and interpretation, which we are side-
RBCF 3000: stepping for tonight's particular discussion.
RBCF 3000: Nubbinus, that gets a bigger question, rather than an "answer", right?
Zamurito: 3k, is lucid dreaming not a first step to dreaming awake?
RBCF 3000: Thottful, exactly yes-- dream upon dream upon dream...
Nubbinus: it is the answer
RochelleDo: which one is more important?
ANU777: terminology seems to confuse humans
Log Count: There were 26 member(s) in The New Age at 07:45 PM
Bethiam27: I have the same question as thottful. Are you saying we are all in a dream state?
Andreaaspn: 3000 is it dream upon dream, or one continuous dream by our design?
Bethiam27: And are we always in this dream state?
RochelleDo: who is to say which state is more relevant?
Sunglo001: agreed, Anu
Attune777: forgetfull state, maybe...
Trish0719: so if we are always in dream, various states of dreaming, help us attain a higher level?
ANU777: both states are the same
Grl Cn Mv: i think were all sleeping 99% of the time
RBCF 3000: Zamurito, only if coupled with discipline. I've known
RBCF 3000: so many lucid dreamers who never made changes in
RBCF 3000: themselves, never really learned from their dreams,
RBCF 3000: just went flying around, or whatever.
RochelleDo: are they not each and all experience?
Bethiam27: by our design? Andrea, meaning we control the dreams?
Andreaaspn: absolutely -- or more Beth, that we create/manifest our reality
Andreaaspn: in our own dream state
ANU777: I suspect imagination is more real than laundry
Andreaaspn: have not read the material of which you speak 3000, so not sure I'm on the same wavelength
SeerMagi: can anybody here actually say you can influence your dreams?
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, careful observation shows us that
RBCF 3000: "continuity" is very illusory-- we spend a lot of enery
RBCF 3000: editing and filtering to make everything come out "as
RBCF 3000: expected", even if unexpected
RochelleDo: I dont see a create in dream state, only an
RochelleDo: acceptance, is that bad?
Nubbinus: yes we can seer you know that
Bethiam27: I am not sure about contolling our dreams -- wouldn't that be a lot like controlling destiny?
Andreaaspn: can you elaborate 3000?
ANU777: our thoughts control many outcome
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, the books are just supplemental--
RBCF 3000: everything we need to do, is there by experience.
ANU777: after all......our thoughts do make us ill
ANU777: so they can also heal us
RBCF 3000: RochelleDo, please explain your question a little more...?
Andreaaspn: energy to edit and expected/unexpected lost me
Nubbinus: and make us whole Anu
ANU777: uh huh
Lenohand: the dream world is where we escape and revel in.. I beg to differ
Magycian: autosuggestion might be invaluable
RBCF 3000: ANU, my premise is that, not our *thoughts* but our *intent* creates *everything*.
SeerMagi: Beth, I hear a lot of talk about controlling dreams, but I can't meet anyone who can
SeerMagi: actuallly do it
Andreaaspn: beth, I think controlling dreams and destiny are the same -- yes?
ANU777: thoughts are not escapism, they are creation at the best level
Sunglo001: to be completely honest, I haven't been following that closely.. but I think there
Sunglo001: are a lot of things that go on in the sleeping world
Sunglo001: 1) your mind is trying to TELL you something...
Sunglo001: 2) connection with the higher self... (etc)
RBCF 3000: Sunglo, you betcha!
DCizunas: Leno, but this revelry...it has nothing to help us grow and realize more
Nubbinus: what do you meant by intent 3000? I think I understand what you mean
RBCF 3000: Lenohand, once you really get into Dreaming, you'll
RBCF 3000: find that it is an intense learning experience.
Trish0719: but we can work through issues and problems in our dreams
Bethiam27: i agree Seer. I haven't mastered it yet. Some things I believe are out of our hands, that is.
Bethiam27: what enables us to learn so much from life.
Attune777: the intent has to be based on a belief no?..3000
ANU777: It is really quite simple
Lenohand: I agree 3K
Nubbinus: yes Attune
Magycian: so its the intent and not the thought
Sunglo001: 3) (and I know this first hand) connection with higher beings
Nubbinus: it all comes back to belief
SeerMagi: Beth, the only reason its out of your hands is because you allow it to be that way
RBCF 3000: Nubbinus, let's say "intent" = the sum of all our
RBCF 3000: wishing = Power when focused in a single emanation.
ANU777: intent carries energy
RochelleDo: the wildness of dreams goes beyond what you would
SeerMagi: intent IS energy
RochelleDo: accept in waking state, no?
Andreaaspn: yes but difference between controlling and manifesting
ANU777: fear has energy
Nubbinus: I understand
ANU777: desire has energy
Bethiam27: how are we to learn then if we can control everything? Where does the life lessons come in?
RochelleDo: it includes all the senses
ANU777: your life is the greater of the energy you project
RochelleDo: I remember smell this week
SeerMagi: life's lessons are right there inside you
RBCF 3000: Attune, *belief* can channel intent, but it is precisely
RBCF 3000: all our *believing* that most robs us of power, I find.
RochelleDo: what power?
Attune777: okay, 3000
Nubbinus: how do you mean 3000?
Magycian: yeah it could be good or bad
AzureWinds: Rochelle, the only power there is...LOVE
RochelleDo: I am still so ignorant
Magycian: Is that from intellect or wisdom 3000?
ANU777: caution is which holds more energy....your fear or your desire
Nubbinus: what we really believe will appear
Attune777: too many beliefs will distort the intended intent, hey, 3000?
RBCF 3000: Magycian, wisdom, of course (I hope
Andreaaspn: Beth -- control does not allow you to accept the divine order of chaos -- manifesting your
Andreaaspn: own reality does
Andreaaspn: inside or outside of dream state
Magycian: sounded like a blend 3000
Lenohand: 3K surely intent is what we are accountable for on this plane?
AzureWinds: Belief's are what we hold onto to fill the void of not knowing!
Bethiam27: can you explain that a little better please Andrea?
Zamurito: Azure, good point
RochelleDo: Azure, I am with you there
Nubbinus: true and not true Azure winds
SeerMagi: Azy, that's very good :-)
RBCF 3000: Lenohand, intent accounts for *every* plane.
Sunglo001: isn't the road to hell paved with good intentions? (sorry, couldn't help it)
Attune777: so, the key is to be accepting, to learn how to be accepting of our experiences
Nubbinus: knowing is also a belief
Andreaaspn: not trying to take away from formal chat, but when we allow events to happen
Andreaaspn: and accept that they are for our highest good
AzureWinds: Nub nope
Eddie Go Braugh: and I've heard tell... the road to hell..... is paved with good intentions
Magycian: good intentions indicates the deed wasn't done
RochelleDo: may not necessarily account, 3k, may merely
RochelleDo: reflect on other planes?
Andreaaspn: instead of trying to control the outcome
Andreaaspn: we better manifest our reality
Andreaaspn: there is a divine order to chaos
RBCF 3000: Sunglo, I guess you kind of know the diff betwixt
RBCF 3000: "good intentions" and *intent-as-the-totality-of-our-
RBCF 3000: wishing*, right?
RochelleDo: do we really interact on all planes in an
RochelleDo: accountable way?
Bethiam27: that makes sense Andrea. How come when cannot actually control our "sleep" dreams?
Andreaaspn: and we manifest in our waking/sleeping states
Magycian: you talking about wishing now?
RochelleDo: gosh, I thought the dream was merely an
Wingsoligh: Ok wishing What about The alchemist who does more than wish
Wingsoligh: Who brings His dreams to reality
RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, yes, that is what we are going for here.
Zamurito: Wings, I bring my dreams to this dream all the time....
DCizunas: I'm thinking of an instance of dreaming.. my mother still *thinks* everyone lives with 1950's morality
RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, please explain about the alchemist...?
Magycian: Well in a wish there are two sides the power and the intent
Attune777: Magycian, and the vibration of each one!
Magycian: Yes Attune
Wingsoligh: They create There own Reality By using the energy of The Universe
RBCF 3000: Wingsoligh, exactly-- you get an "A"
Andreaaspn: well, we create our own illusions in our waking states just as much as in our sleeping state
Andreaaspn: as in the case of your mother DC
RochelleDo: tis true, Andrea
Wingsoligh: Thank you
Attune777: I agreee, Andrea
Sunglo001: Andrea ~ I couldn't agree more!
DCizunas: That's what I was thinking Andreaa
AzureWinds: Andreaspn, so are you saying, that the only reason i
AzureWinds: exist is because i am one of your illusions?
Wingsoligh: Much love and Light to you all
Andreaaspn: all on the same wavelength?
Lenohand: so good intentions are futile 3K?
RBCF 3000: Lenohand, not futile like that-- it's just that we never
RBCF 3000: know why we are "helping", and it's not from the
RBCF 3000: whole of ourselves, which we are using Dreaming to
RBCF 3000: get to, see?
AzureWinds: I have actually been told that LOL
Andreaaspn: I have too --
Andreaaspn: I am talking about the illusions I manifest as a result of the way I think
Magycian: wouldnt that be nice Az, lol?
Andreaaspn: I think we each have the capacity to do that
Log Count: There were 32 member(s) in The New Age at 08:00 PM
Andreaaspn: in waking/sleeping states
AzureWinds: Oh got ya, I believe that is called delusion LOL
Trish0719: so our dreams explain to our subconscious what we didn't understand in our waking state?
RochelleDo: Andreaaspn, that be what is required for growth, no?
AzureWinds: Magy, yes, there are a few i would like to poof out of existance
Sunglo001: but in dreaming ~ the only illusion is the symbolism (which we aren't discussing tonight)...
Sunglo001: the truth, however, is there.
Andreaaspn: yes Rochelle
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, can you make that, "the way we
RBCF 3000: *intend*"? Because our "thinking" turns out to be
RBCF 3000: pretty muddy and full of someone else's
RBCF 3000: programming, doesn't it?
Magycian: So we revert to the Astral Plane when we dream?
Sunglo001: 3K ~ you don't think we can reprogram ourselves?
Andreaaspn: yes -- but our thinking, or our mental atmosphere, becomes a frame of reference for our
Andreaaspn: intentions, 3000
Andreaaspn: hence the delusions, or illusions
RochelleDo: in earlier years especially, 3K
Andreaaspn: we are all delusional!
Andreaaspn: just kidding, by the way
RBCF 3000: Magycian, dreaming has connections to many,
RBCF 3000: perhaps all, of these levels-- but takes skill and
RBCF 3000: persistence to find the threads.
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, sort of-- we'll be getting to that in more detail.
RBCF 3000: All right, friends-- great discussion. Now let us
RBCF 3000: continue with the second section of tonight's class.
RBCF 3000: Please hold comments just until I have a chance the
RBCF 3000: roll out the next few paragraphs of the text
RBCF 3000: .............................................
RBCF 3000: Now we more or less have a sense that, if we can
RBCF 3000: bring intent and will into our dream life, perhaps it is
RBCF 3000: possible to do that with our waking lives, especially if
RBCF 3000: it turns out that our "waking" lives are just persistent dreams.
RBCF 3000: Sometimes I think that this was not true of my reality
RBCF 3000: at first, but between my obsessive desire to find real
RBCF 3000: magic in my world, and the psychosis around me in
RBCF 3000: my early life, and later from my practices, my reality
RBCF 3000: was ultimately pushed and distorted until it now does
RBCF 3000: seem very dreamlike and fluid. Now my life is full of
RBCF 3000: synchronicities, gaps, "gifts" and even miracles.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: At this point, I must explain to you what "dreaming
RBCF 3000: attention" is supposed to be. When we have
RBCF 3000: awakened our life within our dreams, such as may
RBCF 3000: happen with astral projection, it belongs to the
RBCF 3000: "Other," the side of ourselves that knows everything
RBCF 3000: we've ever done, that sets up fateful encounters for
RBCF 3000: us to fall into.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: But actually, the Other is even more yourself than
RBCF 3000: your "normal waking" self is, because "it" sees the
RBCF 3000: whole picture, surrounds your ordinary life in "space"
RBCF 3000: and in "time," and waits for you in eternity. It is your
RBCF 3000: own eternal self-- not your "soul" in the Sunday
RBCF 3000: school sense, but YOU.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: So the trick I'd like to offer you is that of being the
RBCF 3000: other side of your self, the side that dreams you. In
RBCF 3000: setting up this trick, you will feel at first silly, then
RBCF 3000: strange, and then you will feel insane.
RBCF 3000: If we are successful, you will feel like you are dying,
RBCF 3000: and if you are lucky, you may feel like you have been
RBCF 3000: reborn, but as a new Being, with very different
RBCF 3000: senses and cognition and *intent* from your old self.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Your "new" self (which is your original Self that
RBCF 3000: invented your "parents" and gave "birth" to you),
RBCF 3000: being your Dreamer, has unlimited powers in the
RBCF 3000: context of your waking dream, just as you have
RBCF 3000: unlimited power in your own dreams, once you
RBCF 3000: realize that you are dreaming, and once you have
RBCF 3000: gained dexterity and volition in them.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: ****** This might be a good time to stop and talk
RBCF 3000: about how good a model of reality this is, and how it
RBCF 3000: matches up with religious doctrine and mythology
RBCF 3000: and your own experiences. Go right ahead now,
RBCF 3000: please-- open floor for a while. Take your time to
RBCF 3000: scroll up and reread, if you wish. ......................
Sunglo001: isn't this all a metaphor for being responsible for ourselves?
Sunglo001: (woops... kinda blunt,huh?)
Sunglo001: you can't go back 3K
Lenohand: I think we do know when we are helping and we will find the truth about our real selves though
SPEDE RUSH: karma?
Sunglo001: I think I might be there already
Andreaaspn: ahhh I see your differentiation between intent and thinking
Andreaaspn: I think --- they come from different aspects of self?
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, whew!
RochelleDo: <--opting for reborn
AzureWinds: WOW Soul, you seem to be well read
Magycian: So I could insert my future plans in my dream state
Andreaaspn: the thinking from the you and the intention from the YOU
RBCF 3000: SPEDE RUSH, do you see how it's different from karma?
SPEDE RUSH: yes
Magycian: there is a Goddess of dreams
RochelleDo: mega wow
Trish0719: so our Other is our spirit self that knows all our lives and why we are here
RBCF 3000: Magycian, you DO insert your future into your dream, whether you like it or not!
Magycian: I know I know
Magycian: thats how I escaped from jail, lol
RBCF 3000: Trish, it is YOU, and the Whole You knows everything that you ARE, see what I mean?
Andreaaspn: Okay 3000, clarification -- when we fully "awaken" we intend, or manifest our reality,
Andreaaspn: through that aspect of ourselves that is our soul
JacobJG: yes, andrea, we manifest instantly
Andreaaspn: or who we are outside of our "selves"
Trish0719: yes, none of the veils that cloud us during waking - right?
Andreaaspn: physical-mental-emotional selves, I mean
Magycian: thats why autosuggestion is valuable before sleep
RochelleDo: is it a matter of belief or faith to "know"?
SPEDE RUSH: the book "The Celestine Prophecy" says that whatever we intend, automatically manifests
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, we already DO manifest everything but,
RBCF 3000: being asleep, we don't realize how we are doing it,
RBCF 3000: and we have no single, focused purpose to it from
RBCF 3000: this level.
AzureWinds: I guess I think I might have not know all
AzureWinds: that, but I am not sure...can anyone tell me if I knew all
AzureWinds: that or not
Conscious energy: We as fragments of God energy are also fragments of our higher selves experiencing dimensional
Conscious energy: drama for spiritual growth
RBCF 3000: Magycian, yes, if we know what we're doing by it, eh?
Magycian: repeat your intent 40 times as you fall asleep
Lenohand: be careful of your intent my friends
RBCF 3000: RochelleDo, not belief, but a certain sense of Faith--
RBCF 3000: that is, a deep, visceral trust aside from words.
Magycian: Well you could say the hail mary, lol
Andreaaspn: 3000, I would propose that we oftentimes don't know how we are manifesting our reality when
Andreaaspn: we are awake
DCizunas: <---inserting a lyric "was blind but now I see"
RochelleDo: an acceptence that we have it all within?
Magycian: a modified rosary would be good for New Agers
RBCF 3000: Magycian, good point-- by invoking archetypes of
RBCF 3000: Faith, it helps to focus our intent and awareness to
RBCF 3000: change reality.
Andreaaspn: but you are talking about understanding and being cognizant of our manifestation
SPEDE RUSH: that would explain why victims always find other victims or other aggressors
RochelleDo: more than a belief
Lorinaz: I agree 3K
DCizunas: Magy, how would that help??
Andreaaspn: in waking/sleeping states
RBCF 3000: Magycian, I do a rosary on the names of the Christ every morning.
Andreaaspn: yes Spede, I agree
Magycian: I just said its autosuggestion
Magycian: well do it at night too!
Andreaaspn: grace Azure (was a devout Catholic once upon a time)
RBCF 3000: Magycian, I have other practices at night, and more during the day as well.
RochelleDo: mary was always most special to me
RochelleDo: that is all I have left from my Catholic upbringing
DCizunas: Ah, understand you now Magy...just so you don't have to count!! LOL!!
RBCF 3000: RochelleDo, then you can invoke her to catalyze your
RBCF 3000: intent, and you will then BE miraculous.
Lenohand: 3K you are teaching everyone in here it is all right not to be responsible for actions on the
Lenohand: earth plane
RochelleDo: yes, 3 k
RBCF 3000: Lenohand, nope, not at all.
Zamurito: Hows that Lenohand?
Andreaaspn: me too Rochelle
AzureWinds: 3000, why would one want to invoke another to catalyze ones own intent?
Sunglo001: lol ~ short answer
SPEDE RUSH: because it benefits them
Lenohand: nope suggests lightheartedness
DCizunas: Leno, the lightheartness is in the dreamer, not the cognizant, IMO
Andreaaspn: Azure, I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for help
Andreaaspn: from Mary, or any of the saints, or your guides, or angels, or whatever
Log Count: There were 26 member(s) in The New Age at 08:15 PM
Andreaaspn: it doesn't mean you have to forfeit your own integrity or internal guidance
RochelleDo: Muse :))
AzureWinds: Andrea, no there isn't, but asking anyone to manifest
AzureWinds: our intentions is defeating the purpose, if anything, i
AzureWinds: would think that "whatever" invoked, would teach us to
AzureWinds: manifest for ourselves.G
SPEDE RUSH: it is our nature to let others do it for us, isn't it?
AzureWinds: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him
AzureWinds: how to fish, and he will eat a lifetime.
Andreaaspn: I couldn't agree with you more
SPEDE RUSH: we'd rather let us be given
Andreaaspn: it is the essential difference of empowerment and dependence
SPEDE RUSH: than to take the time to learn a craft
AzureWinds: LOL, no, it was my mothers favorite daily preach, especially when i asked her for help.
RochelleDo: so where does "evoked" come from Azure?
Andreaaspn: but asking for guidance in manifestation --- I think that is a different thing, yes?
SPEDE RUSH: 3k, a lot of times I feel as if I am dreaming when I am awake
SPEDE RUSH: like...nothing is even there
SPEDE RUSH: I'm just viewing it from the outside
RBCF 3000: SPEDE RUSH, please explain...?
SPEDE RUSH: it's kind of like the perspective you have when you watch TV
SPEDE RUSH: or you're in a dream that isn't lucid
SPEDE RUSH: and you know you're dreaming...or you know you're watching TV
Andreaaspn: we can ask for help to make better informed decisions --
BIRDIO2991: i have visions just before the sleep state
Joelle007: is it like being the "witness" spede rush ?
Magycian: so the dream diary first thing in the morning
DCizunas: Azure, I just ask for whomever is around to give me help, not picky
SPEDE RUSH: you feel separated from it
RBCF 3000: SPEDE RUSH, oh, I think I see what you're getting at.
RBCF 3000: Yes, I feel that way about my *life*, and my dreams
RBCF 3000: seem far more real.
AzureWinds: BIRDIO, they are natural and normal to the first stage of sleep
SPEDE RUSH: so then my perspective of reality has changed
AzureWinds: in fact, they are part of the first stage
Andreaaspn: I can relate to that Birdio
RBCF 3000: BIRDIO, do you use those hypnogogic visions to travel with intentionally?
BIRDIO2991: i had a long one one time and my eyes wide open
Magycian: We receive spiritual energies through the night
BIRDIO2991: no they just come
AzureWinds: Birdio, I have too
Joelle007: especially between 3 and 6 am, the most silent part of the night
SPEDE RUSH: when I close my eyes....
RBCF 3000: … that's the term for visions that come between waking and sleep.
SPEDE RUSH: things that are on my mind take shape in the darkness
SPEDE RUSH: in the most abstract and cryptic form
Magycian: Well I think it has to do with you Jo
Magycian: times vary by hours
RochelleDo: no silent online, Joelle
Andreaaspn: so how do you use them for intentionality purposes?
Joelle007: what do you mean rochelle ?
SPEDE RUSH: at first it looks like random blobs of color
RochelleDo: Joelle, my best times online at that time
AzureWinds: Joe, you may want to get a scientific book on the stages
AzureWinds: of sleep, you will fin that between 3 and 6 is the most
AzureWinds: active part of the dream state for sleep
BIRDIO2991: azure? it has only been happening the night before and my son died and since then for 7 year
BIRDIO2991: years now
Andreaaspn: really Birdio? what is the vision?
SPEDE RUSH: ...and then it starts to coalesce and becomes distinct shapes and things
RochelleDo: depends when you sleep
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, that's actually what I'm going for in
RBCF 3000: tonight's material-- putting together the focus and
RBCF 3000: skill needed to travel and work in tween-state visions.
RochelleDo: blooming time zones make my favorite things to
RochelleDo: be up for during those hours
Magycian: some people sleep in the day
AzureWinds: BIRDIO, when there are life changes, we become more
AzureWinds: aware, and most people are not aware of the stages of
AzureWinds: sleep as they pass thru them.
BIRDIO2991: andrea? night before my son died...... i lay in bed my husband asleep beside me
AzureWinds: you became aware of the stages of sleep
BIRDIO2991: when like in 3d were four of the msot magnificent angels i had ever seen
RBCF 3000: AzureWinds, right-- those changes make it possible
RBCF 3000: to insert even miracles between the "normal"
RBCF 3000: sequences.
BIRDIO2991: was not frightened
Magycian: Cool Bird
Andreaaspn: listening Bird -- intrigued
RochelleDo: if you require a miracle?
BIRDIO2991: they were standing above a storm raging over my sons home
RochelleDo: can that not be scarey?
RBCF 3000: RochelleDo, for my work, I DO require miracles, lots of 'em!
BIRDIO2991: all of my family gathered kneeling in prayer in a middle room of house
RochelleDo: what if you are not ready?
AzureWinds: BIRDIO, I would have to say, that was not a sleep stage!
RochelleDo: aww, 3k, you are special
Magycian: Was the house near you?
AzureWinds: that was exactly what it was
BIRDIO2991: i was up in the sky and looking down on it all
Andreaaspn: son's house
Andreaaspn: son passed on
RBCF 3000: :::::: blushes ::::::
Magycian: Yes And I knew but was it a house in the distance she could see?
BIRDIO2991: they were warrior angels or beings each golden and hloding a gold staff like a shepherd
BIRDIO2991: their hair clothes all blowing in the wind
BIRDIO2991: and the next afternoon my son was electrocuted
RBCF 3000: BIRDIO, wow-- your dreams are biblical!
RochelleDo: <--determined to learn more about houses <g>
TEECHINA: I had wake/ sleep dream of archangels
SPEDE RUSH: I do not understand the shepherd concept....yet I feel as if I am guided by a hand sometimes
RBCF 3000: TEECHINA, how did you know what they were?
Lenohand: only true, true untrapped spirits may envision this Bird God allowed this
AzureWinds: BIRDIO, were you alseep when this occurred?
BIRDIO2991: so i think perhaps they were there to tell me but i knew not
BIRDIO2991: no not asleep
Magycian: No Az
AzureWinds: Then it was not a dream, but a vision
TEECHINA: they said their names,,and there were also some Catholic saints, weird
Magycian: a forewarning vision
Andreaaspn: birdio -- it was a forewarning vision, but not your responsibility to change
BIRDIO2991: i could not speak of it for 2 yrs without getting hysterical
AzureWinds: I can imagine
RBCF 3000: Lenohand, in the paradigm I am proposing tonight
RBCF 3000: (and all through the series), "God" is not "some-
RBCF 3000: other-guy" who lets or makes bad things happen.
Andreaaspn: incredible power in the vision
BIRDIO2991: now i am writing it all down for it is still very vivid to me
RBCF 3000: We are looking at how it is all our dreaming, and what
RBCF 3000: it takes to make reality suit us perfectly.
RBCF 3000: All right, friends-- let us now move into the
RBCF 3000: breathtaking conclusion of tonight's class -- "Setting
RBCF 3000: up trance states." Please hold comments just until I
RBCF 3000: have a chance the roll out the last section of our text
RBCF 3000: .............................................
RBCF 3000: We usually think of trances as states in which we are
RBCF 3000: hypnotized and someone else has control over us, or
RBCF 3000: as the semiconscious condition resulting from
RBCF 3000: psychological trauma.
RBCF 3000: Buddhist oracles and Voodoo witches also go into
RBCF 3000: trances where there mumbling and gyrations may be
RBCF 3000: interpreted as prophecy.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: But the way we are using the word "trance" in this
RBCF 3000: discussion, we are referring to volitional (and
RBCF 3000: possibly even with extraordinarily keen perceptions
RBCF 3000: and cognition) states of non-ordinary awareness.
RBCF 3000: It is through such states that we ultimately make
RBCF 3000: contact with the other side of ourselves, and with the
RBCF 3000: infinite.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Any disciplines and practices that you have been
RBCF 3000: doing consistently, every day, for enough years, will
RBCF 3000: help with this, as will near-death experiences,
RBCF 3000: especially if you have had more than one of these.
RBCF 3000: Spirit channeling, psychic attunement and astral
RBCF 3000: projection are certainly included, but we have to be
RBCF 3000: extra careful of hitch-hikers and bugs that we tend to
RBCF 3000: pick up in such practices.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Now we are ready for the "advanced" practices,
RBCF 3000: which always appear absurd, moronic and totally
RBCF 3000: useless. Don Juan calls them "not-doings"; others
RBCF 3000: call them warrior tasks, quests, rituals, and so on. I'll
RBCF 3000: divide them into "active" and "passive" praxes.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Everyone who has gone to church has seen remnants
RBCF 3000: of some of the active praxes, like bowing
RBCF 3000: rhythmically, singing hymns, doing sacramental
RBCF 3000: rituals, confession and, in some temples, sacred
RBCF 3000: dance.
RBCF 3000: In monasteries we also find fasting, prostrations,
RBCF 3000: ablutions, shakti-pat, chanting, sand-painting and
RBCF 3000: performing charitable acts.
RBCF 3000: .
Log Count: There were 23 member(s) in The New Age at 08:30 PM
RBCF 3000: With the right intent and setting, any of these
RBCF 3000: practices, done consistently, can set up at least the
RBCF 3000: preliminary states leading to Communion, satori,
RBCF 3000: epiphany or samadhi, as well as fixations of attention
RBCF 3000: which are generally thought of as abnormal in our
RBCF 3000: Western culture.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Some of the passive practices that I know include
RBCF 3000: "gazing," where I focus on clouds, leaves, water,
RBCF 3000: sand or a surface texture, with my mind perfectly
RBCF 3000: quiet, until the liquids become solid or gaseous, the
RBCF 3000: textures start rippling, and light and shadows change
RBCF 3000: places.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Now the shadows take on their own personalities,
RBCF 3000: and can interact with us, such as delivering
RBCF 3000: messages or showing us where the breaks are in the
RBCF 3000: fabric of reality. Leaves rustle somewhere inside of
RBCF 3000: us, triggering impossible memories in us.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: One of my favorite passive exercises has been
RBCF 3000: referred to as "trespasse'," but I prefer to call it
RBCF 3000: simply eye-gazing. You and a willing partner sit
RBCF 3000: across from each other with your heads as lined up
RBCF 3000: as you can get them, so that your eyes are not at all
RBCF 3000: sideways to each other.
RBCF 3000: Now soften your gaze until you are no longer looking,
RBCF 3000: but more like *receiving* the other person's gaze.
RBCF 3000: Let your vision travel through them; watch for such
RBCF 3000: things as their face changing completely.
RBCF 3000: It may switch genders, or change from young to old, or even look like an alien being.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Now, with these gazing techniques, it is very
RBCF 3000: important to keep the eyes receptive and relaxed, to
RBCF 3000: simply take in new impressions, but avoid any
RBCF 3000: fixation, especially as you gain power and elegance
RBCF 3000: with it.
RBCF 3000: Otherwise the attention of the Other (the "second
RBCF 3000: attention") gets stuck, and you might find yourself
RBCF 3000: obsessed, hallucinatory or even possessed.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: When this happens, we can't see it ourselves; it
RBCF 3000: takes the intervention of someone we trust who has
RBCF 3000: real power, not someone who has merely learned to
RBCF 3000: go through the motions and recite empty
RBCF 3000: incantations over us.
RBCF 3000: It is very common to be buried in the earth or
RBCF 3000: suspended in a tree for a week in order to break the
RBCF 3000: fixation.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Another very good practice is simply to take some
RBCF 3000: habitual routine that you do, and do it intentionally
RBCF 3000: different every day.
RBCF 3000: You can also spend time in trees, walk backwards,
RBCF 3000: sdrawkcab etirw, and return greetings
RBCF 3000: inappropriately. While these not-doings may get you
RBCF 3000: strange looks, they don't tend to trap the 2nd
RBCF 3000: attention.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Here's a very important exercise that you can always
RBCF 3000: do: TASTE *every* bite that you eat, every sip that
RBCF 3000: you drink. Really taste it. If you smoke, really taste
RBCF 3000: and feel the smoke all the way down.
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: Afterwards, you can extend this to touch, smell and
RBCF 3000: hearing-- you'll be astonished at how much more of
RBCF 3000: even the ordinary world there is that we've been
RBCF 3000: entirely missing!
RBCF 3000: .
RBCF 3000: ****** Well, friends, this completes the ideas and
RBCF 3000: exercises that I'd like you to examine tonight. Now
RBCF 3000: let's hear your questions and comments. Go right
RBCF 3000: ahead now, please. The floor is now open for
RBCF 3000: discussion on this entire subject.
RBCF 3000: ....................................
AzureWinds: 3000, why do you speak as tho we are not already in
AzureWinds: touch with that side of us, as if we have to do
AzureWinds: something to get there?
Lenohand: is it not a sad state that people here feel they have been in 'jail"?
Sunglo001: it's called awareness
Lenohand: why succumb to such a feeling?
AzureWinds: Sounds like a drill done in Scientology in the Communications course.
BIRDIO2991: 3000 i attended a workshop once and did that practice and this persons face became the face
BIRDIO2991: of a beautiful wolf. never again
RochelleDo: and acceptance
Sunglo001: really being aware.. of the sights and sounds around you
Lenohand: goodnight 3K, very interesting indeed!!
RochelleDo: each where one is meant to be
BIRDIO2991: is anything mentioned here tonight, i have been here 10 min, been similar to voodoo?
Sunglo001: Rochelle ~ agreed... have said that several times in the last week
Lenohand: except for the sorry bastard that was trapped in jail on earth
Zamurito: I have done quite a bit of gazing.....Interesting...
RochelleDo: Sun, there can never be too much promotion of
RBCF 3000: BIRDIO, yes, in that the real practice of Voodoo
RBCF 3000: involves ecstatic trance to get in contact with the
RBCF 3000: spirit guides.
Sunglo001: see.. the thing is.. it doesn't have to be complicated... why we, as humans, do that, is
Sunglo001: beyond me.
SPEDE RUSH: what is actually happening when we see the distortions around us?
SPEDE RUSH: the rippling and changing?
RochelleDo: Sun, it is required for growth, no?
RBCF 3000: Sunglo, what doesn't have to be complicated?
Susique39: seeing things for the first time is magical
Sunglo001: when you walk out of your house in the morning.. to you HEAR the birds? Different Birds?
BIRDIO2991: yes 3000 i thought so
HushTone2k: 3k, the gazing technique.... what about if its done alone, gazing at the mirror.. same effect?
Sunglo001: Actually, Hush.. that's a cool technique
RochelleDo: it is imminent that birds are just bout to sing
RochelleDo: here, Sun, and I do hear them before I go to sleep
MagicGspot: sunglo when i walk out of my house i hear the sound of meatloaf cooking
RBCF 3000: HushTone2k, not the same, but also interesting. More prone to obsession, though.
SPEDE RUSH: narcissism.
Sunglo001: 3K ~ obsession? please explain
Zamurito: 3k, do you have to have someone experienced to gaze with?
Zamurito: What is they try and steal your power?
Andreaaspn: isn't that the same practice shamans use?
RBCF 3000: Sunglo, in all these practices, there is a risk of losing
RBCF 3000: grounding and becoming obsessed, even possessed
RBCF 3000: by "spirits", but really by just our own self-
RBCF 3000: reflections.
Andreaaspn: well, no maybe not
Zamurito: What if
RBCF 3000: Zamurito, one of you should have the skill.
AzureWinds: Right now i am aware of the sound of the fridge, voices
AzureWinds: outside, the temp in the room, my heartbeat, the humm
AzureWinds: in my body and ears, the high pitched sound in my
AzureWinds: ears, the wav legnth of the muted TV in the living room,
AzureWinds: dripping water from sink, rain, wind, my feelings,
AzureWinds: thoughts, the sound of water going thru fridge, sound of
AzureWinds: polight light from oven, sound of air coming in from
AzureWinds: door, smell of rain on concrete, how much more,
AzureWinds: should I go on?
Sunglo001: 3K ~ but if we are trying to become "who we really are".. what is wrong w/self reflections..
Andreaaspn: is the threat of being "possessed" by other spirits in astral travel real?
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, very real.
Sunglo001: if one can see beyond the physical?
Zamurito: Azure, single one out, and become it
RBCF 3000: Sunglo, because we get trapped in our partitions, and
RBCF 3000: these traps convince us that this is all there is...
Sunglo001: Andrea ~ there isn't a soul on this earth that can answer that w/complete certainty
AzureWinds: Zam, why single one out, I am all of it
RBCF 3000: ... That's what happens to suicidals and shooters and fanatics.
Zamurito: Just a way of practicing
AzureWinds: got ya
SPEDE RUSH: that would be scary
HushTone2k: Sunglo, some are scared of themselves.
SPEDE RUSH: .....I've heard of Trading Places
Zamurito: I flood the senses also
Andreaaspn: is that a walk-in?
SPEDE RUSH: where, two people can use each other's body
Sunglo001: I think if you protect yourself... (faith is of the utmost).. it's not likely
SPEDE RUSH: but what would happen?
Sunglo001: no.. a walk-in is different
Lenohand: 3K you really should try to teach people to be responsible for their actions towards others
Sunglo001: a walk in walks in with permission
BelovedMuse: a drive by just jumps in and takes the wheel
RBCF 3000: Andreaaspn, "walk-ins" are generally regarded as
RBCF 3000: benevolent spirits that take over on a derelict soul
Andreaaspn: gotcha sunglo-- contract agreement, one walks in and assumes other's life
RBCF 3000: that defaults its body.
Zamurito: Leno, how 'bout we teach ourselves?
RBCF 3000: Lenohand, I didn't know that was up to me.
AzureWinds: Actually, "a walk in" is not a beingness or identity, but a DOING or process!
Sunglo001: Andrea ~ yup
Andreaaspn: so in the case of astral travel, that is an actual possession?
Sunglo001: Andrea ~ no one can possess you...
Sunglo001: attachments are real, however off?
Andreaaspn: thanks sunglo-- light bulbs going off
Andreaaspn: attachments to your spirit --- and souls can become fragmented, hence the shamanic practice
Sunglo001: Andrea ~ this can get kinda creepy.. but attachments are basically people or "things" that
Andreaaspn: of soul retrieval
Sunglo001: attach to your aura.. inside your energy field
Log Count: There were 24 member(s) in The New Age at 08:45 PM
Andreaaspn: am an empath, and have had that not-so-pleasant experience, but I thought it was basically energy
Sunglo001: YES!! hence the shamanic practice!!
AzureWinds: Beloved, kinna sorta a little bit
SPEDE RUSH: I always get naturally high
SPEDE RUSH: I'm not sure how it happens
SPEDE RUSH: but every once in a while I'll enter a trance...
SPEDE RUSH: and even though I'm fully aware...
SPEDE RUSH: I feel like it doesn't matter that I am
SPEDE RUSH: the world around me ripples and bends
Andreaaspn: interesting stuff
Sunglo001: being an empath is NOT an easy thing
BelovedMuse: ummm... sure, ok fine whatever
RBCF 3000: <-- another empath, since childhood.
Sunglo001: me too.
Andreaaspn: ahhh fellow (((((empaths)))))
RBCF 3000: Sunglo, do you help others with your gift ("curse"?)?
SPEDE RUSH: distorts and changes
Lenohand: I sensed it deeply
RBCF 3000: SPEDE RUSH, great-- that's a very specific state of attention that we want to get to!
Sunglo001: LOL ~ 3K ~ yup.... am learning when NOT to.
Andreaaspn: can relate to that Sun!
AzureWinds: SPEDE, I have empathic abilities as well, but i certainly
AzureWinds: do not place importance and significance of the identity
AzureWinds: and beingness of empathy on myself
Witedragin: <---- A great Empath but still developing.
Lenohand: Is anyone here qualified to KNOW???
Sunglo001: to know what, Leno?
ComtDeStGr: No Leno
RBCF 3000: Lenohand, we are ALL qualified to Know *directly*, by ecstatic experience!
DCizunas: Thinking the same thing Sunny
ComtDeStGr: we are all talk
ComtDeStGr: its all we got at the moment
Lenohand: then WHO 3k?
Lenohand: I have a deep awareness and feel the numbing of it still
SPEDE RUSH: what's an empath?
Sunglo001: Comt ~ not really.
SPEDE RUSH: am I an empath?
AzureWinds: SPEDE, do you have empathic abilities?
Witedragin: An Empath is able sometime to feel what another feels.
Sunglo001: Comt ~ LOL ~ ya gotta pay more attention!~
GeorgeYim: great, sun
AzureWinds: SPEDE, are you able to feel the feelings of others?
Witedragin: Most all of us are empaths, but we choose to block it.
SPEDE RUSH: I used to be able to touch someone, and feel whatever pain they were experiencing
SPEDE RUSH: but I've forgotten it
Sunglo001: did that too, Wite
RBCF 3000: Witedragin, can you say how it's different from sympathy?
Andreaaspn: azure, you were saying you do not place importantness of beingness of empath? What do you mean?
Andreaaspn: you don't let it define you?
AzureWinds: SPEDE, good, I wouldn't concern yourself about getting it back either
Witedragin: Spede! You probably got too much pain which caused you to block it.
Witedragin: Speede! I would try to get it back! sorry Azure.
SPEDE RUSH: how?
AzureWinds: Andreaaspn, yes, that is exactly what i mean
HushTone2k: 3k, what is the difference? yes good question?
AzureWinds: Andreaaspn, why interesting?
Andreaaspn: (Azure) I appreciate your perspective, and in light of what we have been discussing tonight
Andreaaspn: I think it is relative
Insink22: ahhh being in dreaming!!!
RBCF 3000: Thank you all for participating with us today.
Andreaaspn: thank you 3000! very interesting stuff
RBCF 3000: ::::::: bows humbly ::::::
Log Count: There were 28 member(s) in The New Age at 09:00 PM
RBCF 3000: Ok, friends-- that's all the time I have tonight. See you back here
RBCF 3000: Wednesday midnight. Thanks to Host Heart for taking care of things.